A Cygnus Business Media Website            






Sponsored By:








Glock 36 v. Kahr CW4543

The Compact .45ACP Comparison


Posted: Friday, September 11, 2009
Updated: September 9th, 2009 05:59 AM GMT-05:00

Most Read Stories TodayMost Read Most E-mailed Stories TodayMost E-mailed E-mail This StoryE-mail Article Print This StoryPrint Article

Glock 36

Glock

Shown with a "+1" magazine floorplate the Glock 36 is a slim and compact pistol.
CW 4543

Kahr

The Kahr CW4543 was specifically engineered to offer "full size" fire power in a super slim design.
FRANK BORELLI
Equipment Review


Anyone who has read my previous handgun reviews knows that I'm a fan of the .45ACP. The Government Model 1911 was my first duty weapon when I started my law enforcement career as an Army MP and has just always stayed at the top of my list. The Government Model 1911 was the most rugged gun I'd ever been exposed to until the Glocks came on strong in the late '80s. I soon fell in love with the Glock Model 36, single stack .45ACP. Now I've got a new handgun that I've learned to appreciate and I find myself in the debate: Glock 36? Or Kahr CW4543? Now there are generally two ways to approach this decision: subjectively or objectively.

Subjectively is purely based on how it feels to me.

Objectively is purely based on the measurable and reportable data available on each weapon.

I figured that it would be easier to get and evaluate the objective data first so here it is:

Capacity: G36 = 6+1 / CW45 = 6+1
Barrel Length: G36 = 3.78" / CW45 = 3.64"
Overall Length: G36 = 6.77" / CW45 = 6.32"
Height: G36 = 4.76" / CW45 = 4.8"
Width: G36 = 1.13" / CW45 = 1.01"
Weight: G36 = 20.11oz / CW45 = 19.7 oz

Looking at the info we find that the capacity is the same. The barrel on the Glock is slightly longer than that of the Kahr and that's also reflected in the overall length of the weapons: the Glock is slightly longer. But look at the numbers. The Glock barrel is about a tenth of an inch longer (.14") while the overall length is closer to a half inch (.45"). Tuck that away for now. Overall height is within 4/100 of an inch so it's not a deciding factor in any realistic way. If that .04" matters in your day I submit that you have too much stress in your life. The width of the Glock is .12" wider than the Kahr - both measurements based on slide width. The Glock - unloaded - also weighs more by about a half ounce. Again, if that half-ounce matters THAT much to you I don't envy you the blood pressure you must have.

So, as I looked over the measurements I felt that objectively the Kahr would be the winner based on shorter overall length, smaller width and lighter weight. However, the Glock could win on barrel length and overall height. Which measurements matter most? That is a subjective decision. To make the decision objective where these measurements are concerned we'd have to have a way of measuring the impact the differences have on accuracy and performance. Simply put, I'm not that good.

I've had both weapons on the range. From the 15 yard line, slow fire from a barricade supported position, I can reliably shoot groups of about two inches with both guns using 230 grain ball ammo. Every now and then I might get lucky and tighten a group up, but inevitably I'll also have a "called flyer" that has to be excluded from that group. Being realistic, combat accuracy really only requires four-to-six inch groups fired at the 25 yard line. Firing slow fire from a barricade supported position at the 25 I can keep all the rounds inside that four to six inch circle. Most of the time the groups are closer to three inches. The bottom line (for me) is that I can't measure the difference in performance for the weapons as I shoot them.

So, objectively I found that I couldn't make a clear determination. Even if I tried I found that I had to subjectively decide which measurements of the weapon mattered more to me and then make a selection based on that.

Hmmm... okay, so let me approach this subjectively. Accepting that they both fire the same round and have the same capacity, which one feels better in my hand? Here, the Kahr won. Its slimmer grip is more comfortable in my medium-size hands. Next question: which one feels better in my hand while shooting? This difference really wasn't measured until I got into about the 200 rounds-fired mark. Initially they are both quite comfortable to shoot. However, when I got up to that 200-round mark I found that the left rear corner of at the top of the Kahr backstrap had rubbed a blister onto the knuckle of my thumb. The Glock hasn't ever done that.

Does this matter in the selection of a defensive carry pistol? The answer would be no except that such a discomfort may end up reducing the amount of time a shooter spends training. To maintain shooting skill with a given firearm, rounds need to be sent downrange. Sure, I know folks who only shoot the minimum required each year by their state, agency or military service unit. Such folks often make me shake my head. If that's all they can afford then I can almost understand. But I do truly believe that if you're going to carry a weapon for self-defense then you should be on the range at least quarterly and preferably monthly. When you're shooting that much the blister caused by the Kahr (which may not happen to you depending on the size of your hands and your shooting methods) should form a callous pretty quickly. So, overall, does it matter much? Not in my world.

The conclusion that I came to - subjectively - based on my own personal perceptions, needs and skill level, was that I'd rather carry the Kahr CW4543. That said, I wouldn't be at all disappointed if I HAD to carry the Glock. Both are serviceable arms that are capable of putting big holes in bad people at reasonable combat distances... provided you do your part.

Stay Safe!




Web Links:

Lt. Frank Borelli (ret) is the Editor In Chief for Officer.com, and has been producing equipment evaluations and articles for the police and military communities for about ten years. Pulling on his 7 years of military service, more than 25 years of police experience and over 20 years of instructor experience, he stays active in police work, training, and writing. Frank's book, "American Thinking: Sustaining The Warrior Values That Made America Strong - And Still Can!!" has received critical acclaim and is becoming mandated study material in several law enforcement training institutions. If you have any comments or questions, you can contact him via email to frankborelli@officer.com

» More Stories From On the Street



Share your thoughts, advice, opinions, and expertise @ Officer.com

     
Comments

Posted by MCP in Maryland
(09/12/09 - 10:20 PM)
Subjective vs. Objective
The 1911 and the Glock are both good, reliable weapons with big differences. The Kahr is only in its infancy stages as being a reliable, quality firearm.
While the 1911 generally fires .45 ACP ammo, they require constant maintenance and care to funtion well in the field. The Glock, however, requires much less ongoing maintenance and is much more reliable. Not to mention that the Glock is also available in both .45 ACP and .45 GAP (a lesser proven round).
This is not to say that ANY firearm should not be well maintained. The simple fact is that the Glock is far superior in modern manufacture, technology and raliability than the "old" 1911.
Kahr has many years to go before they can prove such great service and application. Maybe they can do, maybe they can't. Right now they can't. Sorry ... fact of life and truth of firearms, reglardless of advertisement.



Posted by Maniac in Illinois
(09/12/09 - 11:19 PM)
Disagree
I have to disagree with the above post hailing glock reliability over the 1911. I have had 0 malfunctions and 0 part failures with my 1911 2 years later with standard maintainence practices. I hail from a dept that is seeing a great change over to the 1911. There are so many quality 1911 clones available in the market I kinda feel its a bum deal to lump them all together as unreliable. The unfortunate fact of 1911 shooting is that inevitably you will get what you pay for.

I am also a owner of a Kahr. The owner's manual clearly explains that a 200 round break in period is required for maximum relaibility. I found the tolerances of my kahr k9 to be much tighter than the glock 26. I have experienced no feeding failures since the break in.

For the record I am not knocking glock shooters. Very basic reliable hand gun. Just disagree with some of the points made above.




Posted by MCP in Maryland
(09/13/09 - 02:23 AM)
Glock vs. 1911
Maybe I need to expand upon my original post ...

I own and shoot BOTH the 1911 and Glock 45 ACP handguns. I can only carry the Glock 45 off duty/back-up per department policy. I have owned, carried and fired both with factory AND aftermarket accessories. I have also owned and carried other makes/models of Sigs, S&W, Taurus, etc.

Yes, the 1911 IS a good sidearm depending upon its manufacturer and maintenance (aka "upkeep"). There are far too many clones out there, and many are not reliable. There are not as many Glock clones out there, with the exception of the production frame material. Put a 1911 and a Glock side-by-side under extreme duress and poor environment/maintenance. The Glock will beat out the 1911 any day ... in any caliber.

The 1911 requires consistent cleaning and lubrication to function up to duty standards. If it gets dirty or loses lube, it tends to jam up. It's a simple fact of the 1911. The 45 ACP caliber is sufficient for the job, even though it is a lower velocity round.

Glock firearms are proven to withstand and function under neglect of maintenance and under extreme duress. This includes the failure of operators to conduct basic cleaning and lubrication. The 1911 cannot claim this fame. Correct me if I'm wrong ... but even the US military did away with the 1911 as the standard issue sidearm.

As far as safety is concerned, the 1911 is not a double action/safe action pistol. There is something negative to be said for the lack of officer safety while running amuck with your hammer cocked back in the holster (for those old-timers or wannabe old-timers that still do). What are you going to do if you're disarmed while carrying the 1911 in such a state of readiness? Officers are routinely disarmed and killed with their own weapons.

The 1911 also has a limited standard magazine capacity in comparison to late model 45 ACP handguns (we're not talking about running around with a 20+ round mag sticking out of the 1911 here -- we're talking about factory standard/department issued mags).
The bottom line is this ... the 1911 has its place in history and it has its place in the field. It no longer has a safe place in the professional law enforcement field. It is not as safe and reliable as more modern handguns. it requires constant upkeep, has a low ammunition capacity and is not very concealable. That's a fact. The 1911 remains a great American sidearm, but its place in American policing is very limited.

For the record ... NO, I'm not some twisted Glock-only proponent. I've owned, fired and carried a wealth of different makes, models and calibers throughout a 20-year police career both on duty and off. I started with the S&W 65-3 .357 "wheel gun" and ended up carrying a Glock 22 to this day.

When it comes down to saving my life or the lives of fellow officers and civilians, my Glocks have proven to be effective, efficient and trustworthy beyond comparison to the 1911.

Just my two cents.



Posted by Bob in Oregon
(09/13/09 - 06:15 AM)
MCP: I'd make only one argument against your point that the 1911 is not a "safe action/double action" pistol and that this is dangerous due to the fact that if an officer is disarmed the gun is more ready to be used against the officer.

Carrying a 1911 in "Condition 1" which is, round in the chamber, hammer cocked, safety on, is the standard (I believe) way to carry a 1911 on duty and still be ready to fire if needs be. In condition 1, if you are disarmed and the suspect pulls the trigger, it will not fire unless the safety is off. However, if you carry a Glock and are disarmed, if the suspect pulls the trigger, the gun will fire.

Because of that fact, I don't really understand the argument that a Glock is safer than a 1911. Sure, the Glock has some safety features that make it supposedly "safe action." The "safe action" features are more designed to prevent the weapon from firing accidentally. The fact of the matter is that if you pull the trigger, the gun will fire. Because of that, I'd consider the Glock's state of readiness to be similar to a 1911 in "Condition Zero" which is, hammer cocked, round in the chamber, safety off. That said, the modern 1911 also has safety features to prevent the weapon from firing accidentally, just like the Glock.



Posted by Bob in Oregon
(09/13/09 - 06:18 AM)
And here is a page that can maybe more eloquently explain my point than I did:

http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm



Posted by Ronald in Va
(09/13/09 - 10:40 AM)
Thanks
Frank, excellent article and I appreciate the awesome knowledge you have.
I would prefer a 45acp for both Duty and Off Duty carry but we actually have a range of allowed calibers we can use in our policy so just in case something happens If I want to be covered on off-duty life and death encounters under our departments umbrella of "liability" I have to stick to my Jframe or My G27. I loved the information though. Thanks Again
Nightshift Va



Posted by MCP in Maryland
(09/14/09 - 12:30 AM)
Single Action 1911
Bob,

You are correct in regards to an officer being disarmed with a Glock and it being ready to fire. However, that can be applied to virtually every "duty" handgun ... minus the "old" S&W magazine safety on some of their guns (wherein the handgun will not fire without the magazine inserted). Of course, the S&W safety feature requires that the officer manually eject the magazine before or during disarmament. A bit difficult to perform under duress, I would imagine.

Most 1911's have multiple safety features, like other modern handguns. They have the standard "flip" safety AND a grip safety. The Glock has a similar feature imbedded in the trigger. It also has a firing pin safety, which the 1911 does not have (for example if dropped).
Regardless, both handguns are deadly if taken from a police officer. I suppose that point is mute.

My point was that the 1911 is a more of a single action handgun, requiring that the hammer is manually cocked for the first round to fire ... whether it be by the initial loading of the first round by racking the slide, or by manually cocking the hammer when a round is already in the chamber. True, the Glock is also ready to go once a mag is inserted and the slide is racked.

I guess "safety" comes down to three main points: training, holster and weapon retention.

The fact still remains that the Glock requries much less ongoing maintenance than the 1911 (ie: lubrication). Both have proven themselves worthy on the battlefield, but it comes down to personal preference. As I said, I have both the 1911 and Glock handguns. My experience has bought my trust in Glock.

Be safe.



Posted by MCP in Maryland
(09/14/09 - 12:35 AM)
Kahr
As I mentioned previously, Kahr has a long way to go before earning my trust. I have worked with officers that purchased earlier Kahr models and had nothing good to say about them. The major complaint was failure to feed.
I have never owned a Kahr, nor do I intend to ... I will take the word of fellow veteran officers that have replaced their Kahr for something better.

Also, there is no "break in" period for a Glock. They function nearly flawlessly out of the box. I guess we can't say the same for Kahr.



Posted by David Moore in Modesto, CA
(09/14/09 - 10:02 PM)
Glock 36 v Kahr
I am sorry to disagree. The most perfect weapon in the defense of myself and me placing myself into harms way for others is the one I am comfortable with. Not the newest or the ones with the bells & whistles. For me? It's in a black basketweave leather holster in the black leather ranger belt. It's a Taurus PT 92 AF. I know... OLDE School. But, it works. I don't want something that is new, just cause it is. I want what I have because it's comfortable.



Posted by Sarge in Oregon
(09/17/09 - 11:48 AM)
Reply to MCP
you stated even the military did away with the 1911. They did (to an extent), but not because of reliability, but to standardize to the 9mm NATO round (and yes, I do own 2 1911A1s)

I have 2 KAHRS, love them both and they function flawlessly (and yes, I also like my 2 Glocks)











1  |   2  |  



Officer.com E-Mail Alerts
Sign Up for Free e-mail Alerts

Daily News & Features
Officer Down Alerts
Special Offers
Weekly Job Alerts