College Education Discussion
Frank Borelli
Editor-in-Chief
Officer.com
I have previously written blogs about the various value to be found in police recruits that have a college education versus military experience. This morning, in sorting through news stories and checking out forum discussions on Officer.com, I discovered two related topics and felt the need to discuss them a tad.
The first item was a news story about how many colleges don’t give sufficient credit - or even consideration - to the military’s training and experience. One case noted was that of a veteran who had been serving in a nuclear engineering position in the Navy only to find himself HELPING the teacher in a college class. Why? Because the college’s curriculum was so far behind the current best knowledge and practices as taught by military training and experience. If that’s the case, then a strong argument can be made for the increased value of said training and experience. Let’s face it: actually operational experience is hard to beat when it comes to increasing applied knowledge.
The second item was a discussion about community and state colleges that offered law enforcement academy programs and how they were viewed by law enforcement agencies. More specifically, how the graduates of such programs were viewed. The conversation arose out of whether or not graduates from a specific community college “municipal academy” were viable candidates. That in itself boils down to how much respect the surrounding agencies have for the “academy” and its staff.
The one thing that seemed to escape the discussion was the fact that any college-attached municipal academy is, first and foremost, a profit generating tool for the college; otherwise it would not exist. As such, it may accept students that are not viable law enforcement candidates due to whatever in their medical, academic or criminal background. Do you think the college is going to turn them away? Absolutely not. If the student can pass the most basic of background checks - even if they wouldn’t pass one for a law enforcement agency - then the college is happy to take their money and put them through the training.
To my way of thinking, this amounts to unethical policy on the part of the college that sells classes to the student, milking an unrealistic hope on the student’s part, of a career in law enforcement.
What do you all think?
I think this is par for course in how backwards our education system is. Most colleges and universities are less interested and training students for a career than they are in taking their money.
I wish there were some accountability on the school’s end. I know at the communications college I adjunct at, 70 percent of graduates have to be placed in jobs matching their degree or the accreditation gets yanked. But most Universities and private Colleges don’t have that.
I think that if a college offering degrees and LE can’t place grads in a LE field, they shouldn’t be able to offer the courses. They are basically selling a useless product.
The “and” in my last paragraph should be “in.”
This has been a problem for years. Open enrollment academies are nothing but money makers cranking out too many people for too few positions. And yes, they are graduating students who have no business in LE and/or will never get hired.
I disagree with requiring colleges to sustain a certain rate of job placement for their graduates. As in any free market economy it is up to the consumer to evaluate the product before purchasing. If a student goes to a school without first evaluating the value of the education he/she will receive he/she deserves what he/she gets.
Michigan, with its failing economy, keeps allowing colleges to take money for the academy, and those colleges basically know that 80% of the cadets will not get a police job. Very sad…
NCHAWK56, What? A college that exhibits Free Market mentality? caveat emptor? shouldnt Big Brother step in and assure that there is a valid ratio? I’m being facetious brother… It’s ironic that a bastion of “socialism” is only worried about the capitalistic bottom line. Criminal Justice programs at these left- leaning institutions are heavy on research and rehabilitation theories, and light on L.E. procedure. The student leaves with a weak Liberal Arts degree. The discipline earned alone makes the Military a more viable prep. option. Better yet, go R.O.T.C. as an MP.
Hmm. I didn’t think of the socialistic implication of accreditation. However, how else would one measure job-placement and do research into how good/sucky a school is if they don’t bother to keep track of these things? (Honestly asking here, not being sarcastic or nothin’)
Hmm, well an interesting topic. Since I went to college (and got one of them ‘uselss’ liberal arts degrees) then went to work as a correctional officer, then decided to join the Army (and yes s an MP) maybe I’m not qualified to answer this question.
Katy, where is it ‘written’ that a college/university has to ‘guarantee’ a job for any graduate, isn’t that the responsibility of the student/ I can see some merit in tracking how many of them are successful in attaining a job in their chosen career field as a form of validation of their curriculum. But requiring it?
And to all of the other commenters out there, overall agreement in the institutions ‘policing’ (pun intended) their admissions policies, but isn’t that ultimately ’self policiing’ to a large degree - as was mentioned by one poster - if the institution/faculty has such a poor reputation amongst local agencies that none of them will hire said gradutates……..
Bottom line will always be that some folks learn a trade or profession better in a classroom and some in vocational technical type environments. There is no way we can determine beforehand which is the ‘best’ way - and that is why there will always be a need for FTO programs.
I have known a lot of college graduates that had masters but did not have the mentality for the job. I’ve also known people with a GED that have done well. Its in the person not it the paper.
It isa sad what police officers have to do in the US.
I agree with rockcop1…I’ve seen both situations in my experience, however, if we (law enforcement) are ever going to be considered a true “professional” occupation like doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc, there needs to be educational requirements sufficient to justify higher pay and benefits. If I were an engineer with a master’s degree and making 60k/yr, I would question why police with only a HS diploma are making 60k/yr. I realize that the nature of what we do should justify more money, but I believe that most of the general public do not see it that way when the time comes to sign our paychecks. It’s a conundrum of sorts, because higher standards should get us higher pay, but we need higher pay initially to attract candidates that meet the higher standards. There is no easy solution to this dilemma.
As a retired cop and currently the program coordinator for our administration of justice program at a community college, I know of the frustrations of trying to teach a relevant course of academic study for a degree or transfer requirement. Our academy is run by the sheriff’s department and we are connected via an MOU. The academy is a regional training center and is wholly operated by the sheriff’s department for its own use and allied agencies. Non-affiliates are admitted, but only after a background check and even that doesn’t preclude them from being dropped. I used to be affiliated with an academy that was run directly through another community college and the difference in curriculum, standards and discipline is telling. However, wanting to tie a college’s performance in with how many students receive a job after attendance is way off the mark. Shall we tie in a police department’s performance to the crime rate and dock the budget or close it if the crime rate climbs beyond a certain point? We need educated officers, but we need officers with self-discipline and life experience too. That is why I would take a veteran over a college graduate who has no life experience every time. I would encourage that veteran to go to college, but life also has a way of conferring advanced “degrees” through the school of hard knocks.
I, for one, would never consider police work to be a “professional” occupation like a doctor, lawyer or engineer. The other 3 MUST have degrees just to start a career. Let’s face it. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to be a cop. I would equate it along the lines of construction worker. You can get into both without any experience and advance based on performance. Of course with a degree you may advance quicker but doesn’t mean you know anymore just that you have a piece of paper. Give me a military guy any day over a college guy.
In Minnesota it is required to have degree in order to be police and that has it is advantage and disadvantage. The advantage is that it is weeds out people that joining the lae enforcement job out of curiousity. Nobody will s not spend a lot of money and put in a lot if they dont have interest in a career. You wont attend 3 to 4years of college. Also having college degree makes look when you infront of judge explaining why you what you did and when they also read your reports. honestly, most cops that have attended college and university barely get jammed because they are not meat heads.Look Minnesota, you barely hear cops doing stupid stuff. WE also get paid good for what we do. I make more than most professions that require masters.
I tend to agree a little with the fact that the community college is selling crap just to make profit, but the market is definatly buyer beware. I really do not think the college is to blame for persons not being able to gain employment. On another note, I think you military guys are just envious of persons with college degrees. I mean lets remember, the reason you joined the military was because you might not have been cut out for college in the first place. All that said, I feel that the job is mostly done by those who have a sincere concern and passion for the industry, and the pay could always be better. Peace to all brothers.
Slinger what are you talking about?? Did you know that officers in the military need a bachelor’s degree? They are “military guys” but they have degrees; they certainly aren’t jealous of any college guy because they went to college and went in the military too.
And joining the military because you’re not cut out for college anyway? That might be true in some cases, but the reverse could work: people go to college because they aren’t cut out for the military. You are putting down the military by suggesting it is for losers that couldn’t make it in college. You know, it’s because of the military that people are allowed to go to college. If it wasn’t for all five branches of the military we couldn’t go to college because al-Qaeda or even Nazis would not allow it. And we’d all have to praise the Queen of England too…
I strongly disagree with Mike’s comment saying that you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to be a cop. Quite frankly I think that people that are charged with protecting the Health Saftey and Welfare of citizens should be highly trained and educated. Police Officers are very important in maintaing order. We all rely on reasonable judgments of these men and women when they are in the field. As private citizens we need them for protection. Lawyers and Judges need law enforcement to produce credible evidence and witnesses so I believe that a good officer would be a hybrid between the college grad and the military guy.
I also believe a good officer is a hybrid of both college and military. I am not giving dis-credit to the military guys, just the ones that are biased against the college guys. Most of the military persons I run into that have the stance that college guys are not cut for the job; harbor insecurities because they were not cut-out for college. To place military above college or even vice versa, is wrong on both sides. Bottom line, some type of training other than just the police academy is required, whether college or military should not be the issue, but to each his own. Peace to all brothers.
Another note, I used to work at in the State correctional system, and I can guarntee, college should have been a definate requirement, at least 15 hours of “how to speak and act” classes. I think college provides a basis for responsability, advanced mentality, and respect for ones self; such may be true for military. Thus either should be looked at equally, and neither one or the other should be preferenced over another.
South Carolina is bass ackwards in many respects, but in this we have it right: To attend the academy you must be hired by a law enforcement agency and pass all the required background checks. All candidates from agencies state and local must be certified through the academy in Columbia.
I attended our local academy in 1994 with the understanding that I had to meet strict requirements in order to be 1. Accepted and 2. Able to complete the academy. Those that could not perform to the standard, showing an above average dedication, got the boot with no refund; no matter what type of college or military experience they had.
Although books are a great source of information they offer no “blood, sweat, and tears” experience. One is not going to learn how to properly perform a traffic stop without actually doing it. I trained an officer several years ago and was appauled at a traffic stop he/she performed. I asked he/she, who committed a major safety violation if he/she learned that in the academy. He/she told me that because the controlled traffic stop he/she performed in the academy was “good” he/she did not have to do anymore. He/she cooked hamburgers on the grill so the rest of the cadets could eat after performing their traffic stop training. - What? -
One is not going to learn how to effectively perform a defensive tactic technique without having to do it. I can remember getting by butt stomped in Defensive Tactics and getting knocked out cold during scenario based training due to poor safety practices. I am glad I leanred my lesson in a controlled environment. The same academy that I went to years ago is allowing student, cadets, to get through on ridiculous standards. The colleges should allow the agencies to set a standard, and enforce that standard.
College Experience: I am currently a Sergeant with my agency and to see some college graduates, as well as those that have not gradutated college, fail at writing simple(who, what, where, when, and why) reports is amazing to me. Its kinda makes one wonder how the hell some college graduates wrote their college term papers. On the other hand some college graduates do very well. ——-mpls copper: I hope your above comment, with its pour spelling and grammer, is not a reflection of your report writing skills.
Military experience: I unfortunately did not get the chance to serve in the military due to a knee injury while in high school. I read a comment from one of the above that said those that joined the military joined because they were not college material. That may be true in some cases. I think those that disagree with you would have liked a more practical comment, “I did not serve in the military because I was not interested in a military career”. When the a@# whoopings start your college degree is not going to help you a bit. I rather have a military vet at my side than a book worm with no life experience when the s%*@ hits the fan. Of course a law enforcment officer with the ability to perform the job is just as good; education or not.
Do some colleges gives students unrealistic hope? Yes they do and I believe all of us know that. If you dont then get over to your local academy and look at some of the people you might be working with. Then ask yourself if what you see is acceptable. I bet you can pick out the ones that will have a very short lived law enforcement career, if at all.
Adam Walinsky created the police corps idea, which put college graduates through a tough residential academy. The program was tailored after military officer canidate training and focused on leadership, community work, and ethics. It’s biggest problems were politics and administration turnover, but when run correctly, it was an outstanding academy that could stand up to any basic police academy.
Perhaps a hybrid of the military mentality and a college education can help make better police officers.
Gee, wonder if that’s why my hokey Tech. school doesn’t have Law Enforcement Training anymore. Have a good one.
I really don’t see unethical policy playing a role in improving ones self. which ever way police would feel you still need some college back ground,before or after the fact. This day in age(2009)you still need all the back up you can get for better or worse,Its turning out worse if you deny, what the world is coming too.