Illegal Immigration…
Frank Borelli
Editor-in-Chief
Officer.com
With this entry I decided to tackle a problem that has no easy solution: illegal immigration. Now before you good readers get your dander up, please understand a few things: first, this is all my opinion (unless I cite facts and references); second, we all have different opinions; third, we aren’t all ever going to agree about everything. With all that said, let’s take a look at a few statistics I was provided via email and let me share some of my outlook with regard to them.
Let me specify this up front: I haven’t confirmed or qualified any of the numbers quoted in the article I received via email. Taking them “on faith” - even if they aren’t accurate - I’ve made comments about each. The comments would still apply even if the numbers were reduced by fully 50%.
First number: approximately 20 million illegal immigrants in the United States. I had once read the number was closer to 30 million, or 1-in-10 since we’ve got more than 300 million people living in the United States now. Hmm… 20 million OR 30 million. Let me see what I can find to compare that to in an effort to put it into some type of perspective.
According to the 2005 census numbers:
The city of New York had approximately 8.1 million residents. So, the number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. is somewhere between 2.5 – 4 times the number of people living in New York. Can you imagine? EMPTY NEW YORK at least 2.5 times, and maybe some more.
Los Angeles: 3.8 million. The number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. is 5 – 7.5 times more than the entire population of Los Angeles.
Chicago: 2.8 million. Illegal immigrants in the U.S. equal as much as TEN TIMES the number of people living in Chicago.
Houston: 2 million. Number of illegal immigrants in the U.S.? Ten to fifteen times more than the number of people in Houston.
Here’s what I find scary: We could EMPTY New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Phoenix and San Antonio JUST TO EQUAL THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THE UNITED STATES. That’s seven of the largest cities in the country. That’s just to get to the 20 million number. To get to the 30 million number we have to add the next THIRTEEN largest cities in the United States. That’s the twenty largest cities in the United States. We have enough illegal immigrants in the United States to populate our twenty largest cities. Does that cause concern to anyone else?
Second Number: If the estimated 3.5 million illegal aliens living in California were moved back to Mexico, the state would save approximately $10.2 BILLION dollars PER YEAR in school costs, hospital services and prison maintenance. Given a recent news article about a Mexican state/district that is complaining about the financial impact it’s absorbing as illegal immigrants leave the U.S. and go back to Mexico, I have to think there is some credence to this.
Third Number: In Denver approximately 12,000 gang members would be taken out of the population if the illegal aliens were caught and sent back to their own country or countries. What does 12,000 less gang members translate into in saved police labor dollars?
Fourth Number: If no more employers hired illegal aliens to work “off the books” or “under the table” the income taxes paid on the legitimate incomes earned by American Citizens would increase federal government revenue by approximately $401 BILLION dollars. ANOTHER approximately $4 Billion would be further collected by state, county and local governments.
Fifth number: Approximately 15,000 MS-13 gang members who are responsible for distributing about $130 Billion worth of illegal drugs EACH YEAR would be gone. In Los Angeles alone about 20,000 members of the 18th Street Gang would be removed.
Final number: If we didn’t have 20 to 30 million illegal aliens living in the United States, earning money (non-taxed), and sending that money OUT of the country, we’d keep an additional $80 Billion dollars within our own economy.
So, let me recap: IF we could get the 20 – 30 million illegal aliens out of the United States we could change our economy for the better by approximately $890 Billion (just short of ONE TRILLION dollars). We could keep about $130 Billion worth of illegal drugs off the streets (and away from our children). More than 47,000 gang members would be invited to leave our country. BILLIONS (pure guess) of dollars spent on enforcement and public safety labor would be saved.
Does anyone still think that illegal immigration doesn’t present a problem for our country? More importantly, does anyone believe that we should just grant that (almost) TRILLION dollar illegal community amnesty and invite them to stay legally? If you said, “Yes,” then I encourage you to reconsider the 47,000 gang members and their (more than) $130 Billion in illegal drugs, some of which are surely being sold / distributed to our CHILDREN.
Now, lest someone accuse me of being prejudiced, let me say this: I firmly believe that America was built by immigrants and that we should continue to encourage those seeking a dream to come here LEGALLY and pursue that dream. They should be required to have a sponsor; a waiting job; and a place to live. They should have a criminal background investigation to make sure they aren’t simply escaping justice in their own country. They should be tested for contagious diseases like tuberculosis and hepatitis. Our citizenship laws should be changed so that the child of an illegal alien that is born in the United States is NOT a citizen. “Anchor” children present huge issues for our country (remember, this is just my opinion). Another option is that immigrants wishing to become citizens could come to our country and enlist in our armed services. All members of our armed services should be required to speak English FLUENTLY.
I believe that we SHOULD continue to see our country grow. That growth should occur through births and legal immigration. However, when 10% of our current population is here illegally and costs our country almost one trillion dollars, it’s obvious that we need to do something. That something does NOT include happy-happy joy-joy speeches made by politicians hoping to get votes from those related to illegal immigrants, or benefiting from their presence in our country. That something should be the proper adjustment of laws; the careful enforcement of immigration controls; and, above all, the aggressive tracking and removal of illegal aliens from within our borders.
Your thoughts?
There are legitimate safety concerns with gangster, drug runners, and possible terrorists. But, you’re missing the big picture.
It’s somewhat analogous to the drug war you mentioned, where you’re punishing (rightfully so) users and not dealing with the real issue: why do people want drugs. Why do illegals come here? To make money, and to live the American dream.
“Our citizenship laws should be changed so that the child of an illegal alien that is born in the United States is NOT a citizen.”
So we are to change the laws of our lands because you don’t like illegals? I don’t agree. We have had a long tradition of being born here makes you American - that’s a requirement for President - and I don’t believe we should change that.
“That something should be the proper adjustment of laws; the careful enforcement of immigration controls; and, above all, the aggressive tracking and removal of illegal aliens from within our borders.”
I agree with the first two parts, but it’ll be impossible to track and remove them. The numbers you mentioned above should make that obvious.
“If we didn’t have 20 to 30 million illegal aliens living in the United States, earning money (non-taxed), and sending that money OUT of the country, we’d keep an additional $80 Billion dollars within our own economy.”
Very specious logic for too many reasons to list. But, why is your rage directed at the illegals for working non-taxed jobs? Do you really think they want to work sh*tty jobs with no security or benefits? It should be the responsibility of the employer to make sure who they hire is legal.
And the money doesn’t go OUT of the country. Yeah, there’s remittance, but there’s also the food they buy here, the products, the gas, the rent they pay - all taxed - which is far more than any remittance. There’s also the work they do, which we want to pretend we don’t need, but if we didn’t need it, it wouldn’t be here.
On a larger point, think about what the Statue of Liberty says. Are we really becoming a nation that denies those yearning to breathe free?
I’m all about breathing free… but doing so legally.
yes. many illegals makes out like bandits when it comes to jobs. they pay no income tax or SS, dont pay into any benefits, they dont pay in to welfare or any kind of public assistance fund. when they’re sick they go to a free clinic. why would they want to become a citizen when so many things are just given to them? they send money home to their family to bring them here also, or they save money for several years, go back to their country, and live like kings. if you dont buy it, think about why employers hirer illegals. it’s because they dont want to give money to the government EITHER.
stop giving things away and start banging employers for hiring illegals and we’ll see a change.
And what of the govt. services used by illegals? Hospital ERs,WIC,food stamps,schools,ESL classes?
Accoridng to USDA stats,75% of Hispanic children born in the U.S. utilize WIC. Food stamp/WIC/school lunches for 5-6 kids adds up quickly.
Ask an American carpenter/dry wall hanger/tile setter/roofer about the devastation caused by illegals under-cutting bids,due to not having to deal with the pesky annoyance of workers’ comp/OSHA regs.
Excellent article!
Tuff: if the illegal aliens were not breaking our criminal law by illegal entry, business would not have to check to see who is here illegally.
President Eisenshower, with 700 men, in 4 months, rounded up and deported 1.5 million Mexicans. It can be done, it is easy to do, and it should be done. All it takes is guts, and loyalty to the USA.
MEXICAN CONSULTATE EMPLOYEE CLAIMS US TERRITORY BELONGS TO MEXICO. WATCH THE VIDEO, PASS IT ON, AND RAISE THE ROOF WITH YOUR FEDERAL AND STATE REPS. SENT IT TO THEM. TIME THEY STOPPED BEING CONNED.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HSgbeTegko
To Locate Contact Information for your members of Congress, visit…
http://www.alipac.us/content-25.html
Fed up with politicians not listening?
Fed up with a piece meal approach?
Ordinary Americans should start a boycott of all trips to Mexico and all Mexican made goods until all the Mexican illegal aliens have returned to their own country. The Pew Hispanic Center said the largest group of illegals is Mexican.
No need for a big campaign, just regular Americans one buy one deciding enough is enough, and refusing to by anything made in Mexico or to travel to Mexico.
I bet that would stop President Calderon from continuing to say that where ever Mexicans are in America, so is Mexico, and that Mexican integration is going to happen so Americans just better learn to deal with it.
It would also be a good kick in the pants to our big business butt kissing politicians.
The Neo Cons and the Democratic leadership are pushing for North American integration. They are doing it step by step, as stated in a Bush gov document by “evolution stealth”. Think no border control, Mexican trucking allowed, Spanish everywhere in the USA, amnesty, no employer enforcement etc.
These sell-out politicians, and dishonest greedy business, are going to cause the disintegration of the greatest nation on this earth and the culture that built it.
As former Senator Eugene McCarthy has written, we are being colonized; forced to adopt another group’s way of life.
Time is running out. If we do not act, we will lose our language, culture and nation.
All that will remain is to ask the last person in the country we once called America to lower the flag one last time.
“Accoridng to USDA stats,75% of Hispanic children born in the U.S. utilize WIC. Food stamp/WIC/school lunches for 5-6 kids adds up quickly.”
God forbid we take care of AMERICAN children.
“I’m all about breathing free… but doing so legally.”
Yes, but it’s tactically similar to the drug war. The whack-a-mole approach will only get so far, as there is a larger issue behind it. You seem to want to not acknowledge that.
“why would they want to become a citizen when so many things are just given to them? they send money home to their family to bring them here also, or they save money for several years, go back to their country, and live like kings.”
Most illegals WANT to be citizens because, well, America kicks ass. The American Dream is still alive and well but we have gotten bogged down in xenophobic scapegoating. They will teach their children English, and dream of their children going to college and having a better life.
And they don’t live like KINGS back in their country, or in any country really. That’s just silly to say. And many illegals do pay into a social security account that they will never get a dime from.
Those illegals undercut construction, so let’s hunt them all down and kick them out. Who cares if we are barely getting the funding we need now for equipment. It can’t cost that much to find and deport 30 million people. (think about that honestly).
I have been admittedly harsh in my criticism, but make no mistake, I know illegal immigration is a problem - I’m not that big of fool. But I don’t think this approach - fear-mongering, xenophobia - is the correct way to solve it.
We need stricter employer regulations, enhanced border patrol - maybe a freaking virtual fence that actually works - and a sensible national policy. I know, it’s easy to say those, but this is a tough and nuanced issue, let’s not forget that.
“I know illegal immigration is a problem - I’m not that big of fool. But I don’t think this approach - fear-mongering, xenophobia - is the correct way to solve it.”
Please read that very carefully Bettybb, please.
I don’t know what the answer to this is, but I agree with Frank in that if someone is here illegally, then they should be deported and have to come back using the legal means available. As far as the xenophobia fear, I don’t care what your ethnic background is, as long as you follow the law to get here and once your living here, your welcome to live the dream here! Just my two cents.
I work as a police officer in California and the situation has reached critical mass here. I am mixed race, part Hispanic and American Indian. My wife is mixed race also. She’s a third generation Mexican American her grandmother came here decades ago legally. I’ve been an officer for fifteen years and a college grad. I’ll break this up into two portions; cultural issues and crime issues.
Cultural issues
I know some people think “illegal” is a dirty term, but it’s referring to the fact they’re here illegally. I think this is important to continually point out, because the media at least in the last 30 years has continually referred to them as “undocumented workers” like the only problem is some kind of paperwork, to dismiss the true nature of the problem. When I was in high school 20 years ago, they showed us this film “El Norte” about a brother and sister fleeing their country to come here for a better life (READ indoctrination). The illegal alien thing was sold to us as poor people coming here trying to make a better life, so let’s just get off their backs.
Sounds innocent enough right? Wrong. When it’s two, it’s not a problem. When you have three million, they take over entire REGIONS. This means you can drive literally for blocks and blocks in some areas and everything’s in Spanish. Everyone speaks in Spanish. Try figuring out how to address someone’s medical issue when they are down on the ground in front of you screaming in Spanish, if you don’t speak Spanish. Try conducting a detailed interview or get a positive witness/ victim ID on an in-field show-up that will stand up in court if they don’t speak English. From a safety standpoint, look at Constable Luncsford from Texas that was murdered on videotape, by three illegals that formulated a plan in Spanish to ambush him and then carried it out. We need to look at these things very seriously. And by the way, I don’t think it’s our duty to learn anyone else’s language. Try pulling that in Mexico, demanding a Spanish speaker and watch what happens. They’ll laugh at you.
I’m not sure what state Tuffcop is from. My guess is it isn’t any of the states heavily impacted by illegals or the third world mentality they inflict on anyplace they work or live. I hear people talk like this, that want to be compassionate towards the plight of others and I understand this and I understand some of the illegals coming here come from some tough circumstances. But I’m at a point now I think this is being softheaded. My belief is these people need to go home, and get their own countries in order, rather than coming here and trying to take what we’ve put together or worse yet, to demand we become more like the sometimes crooked, dirty or contemptible places they came from.
If they wanted to come and assimilate, I guess I could be more understanding. But the current generations coming here, particularly from Mexico, have been taught since early on that the S/W US was “stolen” from Mexico and they should take back all of these lands. By this thinking, maybe we should give back all the land from the Louisiana Purchase, give back Alaska to Russia, give back the 13 colonies to England, give back Florida to the French, the list goes on. The illegals tend to look at anyone of any other race here as “trespassers” and are frankly indignant with them. They don’t want to be US citizens and no offense, but folks like Tuffcop probably haven’t seen the illegals take over entire blocks or entire cities and crush the local economies and local school systems. Folks like this don’t have ten of them living in a house made for three people next door, nor have to deal with their problems every day.
Regarding what he mentioned about citizen birthrights. No other country in the world has this on the books. Every other country requires at least one parent is a legal citizen for this to work. Tuffcop may not know his history. These laws were put on the books, post Civil War, to help (particularly in the deep south) Blacks for citizenship purposes and voting rights. These laws were never intended for people to sneak across the border in the dead of night, drop a kid, then claim “you’re stuck with us.”
Regarding getting them out like Tuffcop says, this is actually not a problem. It works everywhere it’s been tried. All you need to do is dry up jobs by enforcing laws on the books, dry up welfare and benefits, and people will self-deport. The idea that we’re going to do something like you’d see in a movie with dramatic mass deportations in the middle of the night with helicopters, military troops, screaming mothers and crying children, search lights and armored buses is silly, which is why people against it try to make this argument because it sounds ridiculous.
We’ll go through and cherry-pick the illegals with criminal backgrounds, and ship them out. With what I said above, the rest will self-deport. We’ve seen in California you can do one raid at one place in a county, and literally shut down all the illegals elsewhere, because they’re starting to get scared again, after years of not having to worry, that they’re going to be deported. Fear is like guilt, a little goes a long way. Look at what’s going on in states like Arizona and Oklahoma, where they got fed up, and started doing these things. The illegals are bailing for softer states or leaving altogether. I refuse to accept the argument we can’t make this happen. If we can put men on the moon or the bottom of the ocean and bring them back safely, if we could fight two conflicts in two different parts of the world and win during WWII, we can do anything as long as we have the political will. The American people have spoken in the last three years, that they’ve had enough of this, and want the illegals out, no matter what Teddy Kennedy or John McCain might say. We can, and we will make this happen. As law enforcement officers, we are the tip of the spear and need to start thinking this way.
For anyone that still doesn’t understand why, here’s a few choice examples of the mentality we’re dealing with, and signs your community is in major trouble with the illegal alien problem if you look around and see this out the windshield of your cruiser:
• “Payday loan” or check cashing stores start showing up because they have no legit ID,
• Water stores because most illegals are used to having to buy water, since the water systems in their native countries are bad or non-existent,
• WIC stores for welfare for 13 year old mothers,
• A culture that accepts that it’s OK for a 13 year old to have a 26 year old “boyfriend”,
• Having to provide services and literature in Spanish,
• Living with a culture that devalues education and women’s rights,
• Shopping carts left everywhere,
• Litter everywhere,
• Everything’s in Spanish,
• Illegally parked junker cars,
• People driving with no registration, no insurance, no license,
• Hit and runs because the illegals have no license, insurance etc. but also because many don’t believe in taking responsibility for their actions,
• Everyone speaks Spanish and no English,
• People are hostile to those who they perceive as American citizens,
• Local school district boards and sometimes city councils getting “stacked” with illegal alien supporters who run the government like corrupt third-world banana republics (See Maywood, California),
• Crowded local ER’s with people using them as “free clinics” for minor issues,
• Eventually local emergency rooms closing due to “non-payment” by those that use them as free walk-in clinics then skipping on the bill,
• Local school district’s test scores going down in flames because they’re drowning with non-English speaking students who look at school as government provided daycare, rather than a place to start an education,
• Graffiti (not just tagging but the MS-13 and 18th Street stuff with death threats against police, JUST LIKE YOU SEE IN SOUTH AMERICAN COUNTRIES),
• Illegals picking through the trash at 3 AM looking for recyclables,
• Illegals hanging out at the local Home Depot trolling for work,
• Illegals dealing dope or committing homicides.
I could go on and on just what I’ve seen. We won’t go into the families with five to eight children, where the father works under the table, not paying taxes, and everybody else has to pay to school their kids, nor providing them with state benefits like “free” health care, “free” or low cost housing, the list of “free” benefits they take and never pay for is endless.
We are reaching the tipping point in California where we have more people taking from the system than paying in, and it’s going to start to collapse. It’s starting right now, with our legislature demanding more and more tax increases to pay for those that pay little or nothing. Check California news stories and you’ll see it’s happening right now.
Crime issues
Don’t think that just because you live in some eastern state or mid-western state or work for a small town these problems won’t affect you. I’m reading regularly about tiny PD’s and towns getting overwhelmed when the local chapter of MS-13 rolls in and starts drug-trafficking and now these PD’s that haven’t dealt with a homicide in 20 years, are having to deal with frightening levels of violence normally only seen in foreign countries. 15 year old girls cut up into pieces with machetes and left out for people to see what happens when people don’t cooperate with the drug trade, things like this. A buddy of mine went to Arkansas to be a deputy in a small county. Soon as they heard he was from LA, they immediately named him the OIC of their gang unit, because they were frankly overwhelmed with the California gangs doing business there, and had no idea what to do with these suspects. Border towns where the local small town marshals and police are overwhelmed by drug runners that literally have their own armies with military grade equipment, weapons and vehicles, or they simply buy off the local Mexican army units.
When their numbers reach a certain point, and they feel comfortable enough, the racist attitudes many brought with them from their countries start to come out. Witness the racial cleansing going on in LA’s neighborhoods (type HIGHLAND PARK BLACK HOMICIDES in a search engine and see what you get). This is born from racism and most of the suspects are illegals, usually committing brown on black crime.
Fifteen years ago, in most of South Central LA, when the illegals were in the minority, they sought to “get along” with their mostly Black neighbors. Now that there’s enough of them that the Blacks are in the minority, many of the illegals are showing themselves to be worse than the KKK ever dreamed. Remember that “La Raza” means “The Race” and their motto is “for the Race, everything, for everyone else NOTHING.”
On top of this, they commit crimes here, up to and including homicide of police officers, and they simply flee home, and their countries will protect them for the most part. It took us about a decade to get Deputy David Alan March’s killer back alone. Good luck if it’s your family member that they killed and you don’t have the notoriety of a large law enforcement agency trying to help get this guy back.
The illegals aren’t remaining confined to the liberal big cities with sanctuary policies anymore. Those places are mostly too crowded, so now they are heading towards the suburbs and into other states. The issue is growing, and it will eventually reach all portions of the USA. This is something we all need to take seriously now as police officers, because as I said, if it hasn’t hit your community yet, it probably will soon.
This is a parody right? You can’t do an economic analysis without considering benefits too. It’s obvious you have an ax to grind.
Better keep your day job. You can add OK but you’re sure no economist. By the way, real economists who have done real cost/benefit analyses on illegal immigration have concluded that their net effect (costs + benefits) is zero or a bit on the upside. In some regions, they’re way positive, and in some they’re more negative. Some workers do get hurt, but overall, most everyone benefits. Overall, it’s about a wash. All studies done at state levels, show states get a net benefit. Border counties, not so much. No, I’m not “pro-illegal,” or “open borders” (please!) just trying to add some sanity to the debate.
As TuffCop says, this issue is way more complex than most people make it out to be, with lots of factors to consider including our own complicity for decades. Oh no? Bought fruits or veggies lately? Had any construction done? Landscaping? Stayed at a hotel or resort? If so, then do you buy stolen goods too? No? But you buy products and services you know for a fact were provided by “illegal” hands? Hmmmmm… Sounds a little inconsistent to me! Dare I say hypocritical?
We’re all complicit whether we admit it or not.
People who post such obviously biased propaganda only accomplish showing their true colors. I’m too polite to tell you what those are, but you get my drift.
Your methodology is like my doing a study on the whole extended Borelli family, and then publishing a report detailing only the costs the Borellis have ever incurred to society, with no mention of any benefits, and then concluding that the Borellis are parasites and leeches, blah, blah… that we decent tax-payers need to do something, etc. I could make quite a strong case I bet, start an anti-Borelli campaign, write a book, do the talk show circuit, etc.
Absurd, right?
Exactly.
Great article Frank, you stuck to the known facts about this issue and yet still you have an individual insinuating that the rest of us are xenophobic and racist for wanting to see Americans benefit from America’s wealth. As a native of the city of Los Angeles, I can personally tell you that most illegal immigrants could care less about becoming Americans; I have seen people who have lived here for over ten years and still not be able to speak English, and they’re just fine with only speaking Spanish because we accommodate them so much. I have seen only small remnants left of American culture in my city, everything is in Spanish-all governmental literature, non-bilingual Americans need not apply to most jobs if they cannot speak Spanish, I have seen the Mexican flag so much I know it better than most citizens of Mexico.
Don’t be fooled by pro-illegal groups or persons, reference groups like La Raza (The Race) or even Mexican Government officials who claim that this land is their land and no one else’s. Call a spade a spade, I can work with almost any sensible solution but distorting and spinning the truth is inexcusable.
Mr. Borelli
We agree 100%
Legal Immigrants First!
http://www.legalimmigrantsfirst.org
Excellent post by LA Blue, succinct and thorough.
Mr. Quxiote, are you trying to say that you yourself are an economist or has trained as one? Its funny because I see the same argument you use by those in corporate America who have benefited the most from illegal immigrants-The Wall Street Journal, U.S. Chamber of Commerce, anyone else besides me seeing the correlation.
A website, Immigrationcounters.com, places the number of illegal aliens at over 21 million and provides a detailed rationale showing the justification for that number.
The terms “xenophobia” and “racism” once bespoke very evil views, but they have been so readily abused that now the signify little more than that the one so labeled disagrees with the views with the person using the term. Their use is an effort to marginalize those who disagree thereby avoiding addressing the rationale they advance.
AMEN!!! What else can I say the officer’s article is dead on !
Excellent post! Over and over the pro illegal alien groups want to convince everyone that the US can’t live with out the 20 plus million illegal foreigners that invaded this country. They use the arguments we we are a country of immigrants, tomatoes would cost $5.00 each, illegal immigrants pay taxes and contribute heavily to our society, our economy would be devastated. All spin and lies.
“We are a nation of immigrants” is not true. Currently we are a nation of natural born citizens. We once were a nation of immigrants as most of western world is. Being a nation that was founded by immigrants doesn’t mean we have to accept the entire world. As it currently stands America accepts more legal immigrants then the rest of the world combined. The plaque on Lady Liberty, has nothing to do with the original intent of the statue. It was put there by the friends of Emma Lazarus, who by the way most consider to be a communist/socialist.
Tomatoes $5.00 each. A study by CIR indicated that even if tomato picking wages went over the minimum wage, the actual cost increase to the consumer would only be a few pennies. Mechanization would increase and eventually the price would return to previous levels or lower. Higher wages almost always lead to more innovation.
Sure illegal immigrants pay taxes, but as with any low wage group they contribute far less then they receive. In order to work illegals are either accepting cash only or are using stolen SS numbers. Very few go thru the trouble of getting an individual tax payer number and actually paying income taxes. Individually, they are afraid of being caught. That means, most are contributing only thru use and consumption taxes. Those who are using stolen SS numbers often fail to pay the income tax on their wages (1099) and the legal owner of the number is stuck with the bill. Professor George J. Borjas, Professor of Economics and Public Policy at Harvard University’s John F. Kennedy School of Government and a Research Associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research has done in depth studies on the financial impact of illegal aliens. His conclusion was there was a deficit caused by illegal aliens. Bear Stearns did a study in 2005 that indicated that the underground cash economy was almost a trillion dollars a year. Do A Google search or check out VDARE.com.
What about the poor children of illegal aliens? They are citizens if born here right? Not necessarily so. It is only because of a misinterpretation of the 14th amendment that birth citizenship is granted. More then a few constitutional lawyers have indicated that the Supreme Court was wrong in it’s assertion of birth right citizenship (U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark). For more information see the Federalist blog or search for the the historic writings of Sen. Howard and Sen. Trumbull authors of the citizenship clause. In any event, the children of illegal aliens should stay with their repatriated parents. There is no reason to let illegal aliens stay because of their “anchor baby”.
The real question no one is addressing is “what should the total population of the US be? 300-400-500 million? Currently it requires 12 acres of undeveloped land to be developed for each new additional person. The entire southwest is still considered in a drought. Where will the resources come from to support such population increases? The US native born population is stable and sustainable. Most population increase in this country is do to immigrants (legal/illegal) and their children. The last proposed Kennedy/McCain Amnesty bill would have increased the population of this country by another 100 million in 40 years or less.
It is wonderful to want to save the entire world, but we cannot do it by bringing them all here. There is a point where the life boat called The United States of America will capsize. Is that the future we want for our children? I sure as heck don’t.
Excellently put LA Blue! Keep up the good work ! We need more officers like you, and Borelli.
I am currently in the U.S. Military stationed on Camp Pendleton. I Find Mr. Quixote’s comments almost slightly amusing. First of all, how can something considered illegal by America be beneficial to America in ANY way? How can millions of people not paying taxes, vehicle registration, car insurance, health insurance, or anything else that keeps the U.S. going, help in any way at all? I would like explained exactly how people staying in hotels, and having construction work being done on their house be considered hypocrites. Again, I am confused greatly by this. Where exactly do you propose people traveling on business stay?? Are you kidding me? So people who now employ hotel services because of their job, or as a result of well-earned vacation time are now hypocrites? Yeah, that’s a good analysis. So what exactly are the benefits of having millions of people stay here illegally? You didn’t list any. And why in the world is everything in southern California also in Spanish? Where is the German, French, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, and Korean?
Glad I amused you Banks! Read what I wrote carefully. I never argued that illegal immigration is a good thing overall for our society. I also want to end it.
I was simply critiquing Mr. Borelli’s mostly economic argument. No, I’m no economist either, but at least I refer to real economists who have studied this issue in great detail, and have concluded that from a purely economic cost/benefit standpoint, it’s about a wash or on the positive side. This does not imply that there are no other social costs, or that there aren’t local regions or persons that aren’t hurting.
We do agree that any illegal activity is never healthy for society.
All I’m trying to do here (and I realize that it’s futile, since in my experience, people have their heels dug in pretty deep on this matter), is to demonstrate that the issue is highly complex and that looking only at the economic costs, like Mr. Borelli did, with no regard to any other factors, is demagoguery, which is counterproductive. Whether you admit it or not, it is a fact that we have benefitted economically - 2/3 of these people pay full taxes with no recovery; all pay sales and property taxes; they provide relief for labor shortages; they take lower pay; they work hard; they consume U.S. products; in the higher end, many are entrepreunuerial, and they provide relief in the U.S. high tech industry.
I’m also a Californian and grew up on the border. I want to believe people who say this isn’t about race, but frankly when I hear such puerile complaints about Spanish (press 1 for English, etc.), and stereotypical generalizations about brown people, and I see that these comments don’t get censured, I really have to scratch my head and wonder. I’m sorry, but that’s just a normal reaction. Hate crimes against all Latinos are way up, and if you monitor the cable news pundits, talk radio and the blogosphere nearly daily you hear blatantly racist and xenophobic comments that never would have been uttered a few years ago. If you say it’s not about race, fine, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, but don’t deny that you are in the company of many, many others whose motives aren’t quite as honorable as yours. And please try to understand why Hispanic people are uniting in self-defense. (By self-defense, I mean politically as in at the polls. Don’t get excited about those idiotic reconquista conspiracy theories.)
“More then a few constitutional lawyers have indicated that the Supreme Court was wrong”
That would be a great argument except that there are a few constitutional lawyers right now who think the D.C. gun ban is fine under the 2nd Amendment.
Further counters to come, but I have today off and I’m going hunting.
More SUBSTANTIAL counters to come, I mean.
Sorry, just don’t like lawyers.
TuffCop:
Per dictionary.com: Xenophobia: an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.
I carry no fear or hatred. I rejoice in our country’s tourism industry and I welcome all immigrants who wish to come to America legally; to pursue citizenship; to take their oath as American citizens.
What I take issue with is the MILLIONS of immigrants who have entered our country ILLEGALLY; who take advantage of the benefits our country offers to CITIZENS. I take issue with nearly 10% of our country’s total population being here ILLEGALLY.
What “larger issue” do you speak of? If life is so bad in Mexico, then citizens of that country should do all they can to reform the country. I would support the United States rendering aid to Mexico to assist with reforms that support democracy and humanitarian concerns. Heck, even THAT would have to be cheaper for our economy than absorbing an almost one trillion dollar burden for illegal immigrants.
This is the year 2008. I KNOW that there are those folks who believe in thinking “long term” - both backward and forward. I know there are those of Mexican heritage who feel that parts of the southwest United States should belong to Mexico. Whether it should or shouldn’t isn’t my debate. It’s NOT Mexico’s and those states should never have to bear the burden of supporting MEXICAN CITIZENS. Understand that statement: illegal immigrants who come here from Mexico are MEXICAN CITIZENS living off Uncle Sam’s good graces. Even if they have jobs, they have jobs illegally because of the American system that permits such. I agree with you that the employers should be punished for employing illegal immigrants ALONG WITH THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
I understand your statement about hypocracy with regard to using services or products provided with the support of illegal immigrant workers. Here’s the reality though: I’d buy those products and use those services even if no illegal immigrants were involved in them, and I’d be happier doing so. That would mean more American citizens had jobs!
The United States of America has had the most successful government in the past four hundred years. Take a look around the globe and find a country whose governmental system has lasted as long as ours and still remained intact.
I believe that Mexico should swallow a little bit of pride and ask the U.S. for help. That help should include: technology, training, maybe food support, health care assistance and more. But all that help should be provided IN Mexico under the auspices of government approved programs. All that help SHOULD NOT be provided to people living in our country ILLEGALLY; who came here ILLEGALLY; who are employed in violation of our laws (illegally); who cost us - again - almost one trillion dollars EACH YEAR. Personally I’d rather see that money just GIVEN to the Mexican people. Using the July ‘07 estimate for the population of Mexico that’s $10 per person. Heck, just think about this: the Mexico population in July ‘07 was estimated at approx. 110 million. If 30 million of them are ILLEGALLY in the United States, that means 25% of all people claiming Mexican heritage LIVE HERE. 25%!
Stepping back down off my soapbox now…
Don Quixote,
You are right, there are racists involved in the illegal immigration debate, and most of them are on the pro-illegal side. Illegal immigration benefits Latin Americans at a rate 30 times that of non-Latin Americans, see the data here:
http://www.legalimmigrantsfirst.org/aboutamnesty.html
These pro-illegal racists include the National Council of LaRaza, Mexican American Political Association, MALDEF, LULAC, Brown Berets, Voz de Aztlan, and almost every Latino politician.
I don’t know how in the world you posted something like this with all your bs Statistics, and I hope you are not a current cop because if you are….then uneducated/ignorant cops/people like you are the problem in this country/society. Your job is not to investigate if someone is legal or illegal unless you are working for homeland security, and not all illegals are from Mexico. Illegals are not bandits like you think, they are hard working men/women who work harder than you. In every race, there is good and bad people…if you educate yourself a little, you are going to learn more things than just the things you learn by reading or watching what ignorant people post on GOOGLE or YOUTUBE….Most of the things there, are not true. Education is the Key of Success. This Website is too good for your trash opinions. Do your homework before you post opinions.
Jeez Frank! Now you’re really demagoguing, and you’re not reading my posts are you? So in your warped view of this issue, 30% of all Mexicans are here in the U.S. illegally? 30 MILLION!?!
You are unaware that the best estimate of ALL undocumented immigrants is about 12 million? And that a little over a half of those are Mexican?
That’s 7 million Frank, not 30 million. That is a very big and very significant difference. The remaining 5 million consists of other Latin American countries, but there are also Irish, Asians and Europeans, among others.
You grossly exagerrate the numbers, beyond all credibility, blame it all on Mexicans and then claim it’s not about race or xenophobia?
And then you wonder why people are suspicious of your motives? If you’re an officer, I sure hope I never get pulled over by you. You’re the reason we have to worry about racial profiling when discussing giving police officers authority to enforce immigration law.
By the way, the U.S. has only existed for 231 years, not 400! In addition to being a bad economist, you’re not much of a historian either. There are many, many countries and cultures much older than us. There were also hundreds of ancient “successful” cultures that were here for thousands of years prior to the U.S. being formed. Actually, we’re a baby in historical time. Talk to me in about 1,000 years and then you can brag about the longevity of our system. I personally believe we’ll still be here and strong, but I acknowledge the realities of history.
The US allows over 1 million immigrants annually to immigrate to this country. That is more than any other nation on Earth. Immigrants do not have a right to immigrate here without the legal permission of our government and it’s laws. Can you imagine what this country would be like if we allowed anyone and everyone to come here? Half of Latin America would come. Half of Asia and Africa too! We’d surpass China as the most populated nation. The citizens of this country would suffer too. Massive traffic jams, third world life styles, polution and disease, third world wages, and the complete loss of the American culture as we know it. It’s already to the point that people are angry that our resources are being drained by a huge illegal alien population. Our schools are overcrowded, our hospitals are swamped and going broke, and our prisons are filling up with illegal aliens. In just 50 years the number of illegal immigrants will triple unless it is stopped now. It must be stopped now if you want your standard of living to remain what it is. I am tired of anyone that is in favor of enforcing our immigration laws being called racist. Forget race! I don’t care if you are European, African, Hispanic, or whatever. If you are here illegally you need to be prosecuted and sent packing. This country will welcome anyone that comes here legally. We need to send the message that the days of allowing illegals to come here are over. Be legal or be gone! I’d also like to point out to the government of Mexico that good neighbors respect each others laws. If you don’t respect our laws then you’ll suffer the consequences when the blowback against your citizens comes. No more remittances allowed out of our economy. No more tourism. No more trade. Mexico isn’t a poor nation. Mexico is listed as the 15th richest nation according to Forbes. They have resources and they can have a vibrant economy without draining our economy. The problem is they’d rather export their citizens to the US and receive the remittances. It cost them nothing and they get billions annually. It eases the overcrowding and unemployment. They don’t even have to provide education for their children. Just go north and they’ll provide it for you. Don’t you see how insane that is to think the US taxpayers will support Mexico’s poor, uneducated and undesired citizens? Mexico benefits and the American taxpayer gets screwed. California spends 10.5 BILLION annually on illegal aliens. The state has a deficit of 16 BILLION and they are cutting off services and programs for citizens. And they wonder what is pissing us off? The whole idea is outrageous and must end if our country is ever going to be the nation it is capable of being. Before you start calling me a racist, xenophobe, or nativist I’d like to point out that I have Hispanics in my family. Not all Hispanics are pro illegal immigration. You can go to dontspeakforme.com and get their views for yourself. It’s all Hispanics against illegal immigration. Apparently they don’t want to see this nation become another third world nation like Mexico either! Maybe it’s time for another revolution in Mexico to change the corrupt government there. A regime change for Mexico may do them good. If you want to know why Mexicans don’t assimulate into American society it’s because they really don’t want to be here. The average Mexican lives off of $2 a day! When you can make a months wages in a few days, it’s no wonder they want to come here. Cheap labor isn’t so cheap. Legal immigrants have to be self supporting. They have to have a job or a sponsor so they are not a drain on our society. They must pass a background check and a physical checkup. I was glad to hear that the policy of catch and release has ended. A zero tolerance on the border will send the message that the grongos up noth have gotten wise. I saw a report that stated illegal aliens are less likely to break our laws and be prosecuted. I almost fell over laughing! They’ve all broken our laws. Every single one of them! The statisitcs make it look like they don’t because they can get out of being prosecuted if they self-deport, which most of them do. Only to return right back across the border. I’d also like to point out that anyone who hires illegal aliens needs to be vigorously prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and have their assets seized. We can stop illegal immigration and we don’t have to lose our compassion for immigrants. The message is getting out that you need to be legal in the US. Legal immigrants are welcome! Illegal aliens will be caught, jailed and deported.
Don Quixote:
We obviously get our numbers from different places. But even if the number IS only 7 million, that’s still almost the equivalent of the population of New York and nearly double that of Los Angeles, and IS double (plus) that of Chicago. Don’t you see that as a problem? Let’s work with that 7 million number…
That’s only 2% of the U.S. Population, but does it only use 2% of our resources? Or is it disproportionate?
That same 7 million represents more than 6% of the total Mexican population - world wide from the numbers I can find online. Why would 6% of the country’s population choose to live ILLEGALLY in another country?
I understand what you’re saying about illegal immigrants from other countries and I’ll agree your point. Not ALL illegal immigrants are Mexican. I never meant to say that they are, and if I mispoke myself I apologize. However, if you ask residents in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and southern California, I don’t think they’ll identify illegal immigrants from… I don’t know… pick someplace… the Ukraine as a major burden in their community.
You keep insisting that I’m xenophobic. We can agree to disagree all day I suppose. Everyone I ever deal with on the street is treated with professional courtesy and within the bounds of the law. “Racial profiling” is not something I’ve ever done and will never do. For the record, I’ve never had a brutality or excessive force complaint filed (in 26 years as a cop) and I’ve never had anyone file an unprofessional conduct comlaint claiming I treated them unfairly based on their race.
Now I’ll drop the other shoe: it irks me to no end when I pull over someone who has an expired driver’s license issued by California, driving a car not properly registered, not properly insured, with little to no paperwork related to the vehicle at all, and who can’t speak enough English to explain to me why I shouldn’t write him (or her) a book of tickets and impound the car. But when I do, then I’m “xenophobic”?
REASONABLE is the operative word to me. And in my world, ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is unreasonable. First off, it’s simply ILLEGAL and there is no excuse for encouraging or allowing people to break the law in mass numbers. Second, it’s reached levels that threaten this country’s well being. I’m all for controlled immigration. It’s how my own ancestors came to America - LEGALLY.
And just for the record: very little of my original post about this subject had anything to do with Mexicans (maybe the gang parts?). In going back through the posts it seems to me that Bettybb’s post and your own (Don Quixote) have made this about Mexicans. I addressed that with my post on 3/19 at 7:22pm. Further, while I know there are countries out there older than ours, which government out there hasn’t been revolutionized in the past four hundred years? And yes, I know ours is only 200+ years old… but our country has been at least 500+ years in the making (if you accept Columbus’ “discovery” in 1492). Using the number 400 I was actually trying to be conservative.
No Frank. You brought up Mexicans before I did. I accept your apology for grossly inflating the Mexican numbers though. You’re a master at hyperbole and demagoguery, but you’re terrible at math and history (our country started 500 years ago, in 1508???!!!). What amazes me is that you don’t see your own contradictions. You claim this isn’t about race or xenophobia, and then you immediately proceed to complain about those you pull over who “can’t speak enough English to explain to me why I shouldn’t write him (or her) a book of tickets…”
The key question is: Do you feel equally “irked” by English speaking white folks in the same scenario? I bet you don’t. You assume people are “illegal” because they can’t speak English to your liking and I bet also because of the color of their skin.
I hate to break to you Frank, but your feelings are just a hair away from racial profiling, and if your being “irked” impairs your judgement even subconciously, then it IS profiling. If, God forbid, you ever were granted the authority to enforce immigration law, we know what would happen, don’t we Frank? That’s why in Prince William Co., Virginia, they had to install video cams in patrol cars to ensure police officers (like you) don’t engage in profiling. The authorities already know what will happen!
My Mom and Dad hate speaking English, and they have strong accents and really mess up when nervous. They’ve been productive citizens for decades. I worry about cops like you Frank and I worry about the welfare of my family with all the hate crimes against Latinos increasing. I worry much more about the hatred and xenophobia exponentially increasing among our own citizenry and the people that are supposed to protect us (police, politicians, etc.) than I do about any “foreign threats”. Everyday it gets worse. I was confronted by a “redneck” (sorry but that’s exactly what he was) for speaking Spanish to a relative on the phone a few weeks ago. I’m U.S. born and speak perfect English and Spanish with no accents.
You need to do some soul searching brother. You are one conflicted soul. If it’s really not about race, then don’t contradict yourself.
I get my numbers from reliable sources such as university studies and/or independent government agencies. I stay far away from “think tanks” or any advocacy group, even the ones that support my position. I try to educate myself and read several books on history, culture and law from scholars, not from demagogues or junk media pundits. I don’t watch cable news, nor do I listen to radio talk shows. Where do you get your numbers?
The biggest problem with your entire argument is that the premise that it rests on is fundamentally flawed. That renders your entire argument completely invalid. You keep stating and restating (as if though repetition makes something true) that “illegals” are here for free services. As if though they do nothing but sit there and cash checks courtesy of you and I. You refuse to acknowledge that most work harder than most Americans, all pay some form of taxes, all consume U.S. products, and most stay out of trouble. You only focus on costs and negatives, and assume zero benefit and positives. Again, as I’ve indicated twice, I’m not arguing that these benefits make “illegal” immigration acceptable. I want them to do it legally just as much as anyone else.
And by the way, studies show that gang members are mostly American citizens. Again, just because they have brown skin and speak with an accent doesn’t make them “illegal” immigrants. That’s profiling. MS13 was originally a U.S. gang, and then it spread southward. Gang culture is very much an American phenomena unfortunately. U.S. citizens have the highest crime rates in the world relative to other “civilized” nations. One of every one hundred Americans is incarcerated, higher than any nation by far.
I know what you’re thinking… “It’s them illegal messicans agin!!” They make such a convenient scapegoat for all our ills.
Don:
1) Give me some credit. I’m the guy who has to approve all your comments before they go live here. The fact that I’ve not edited them in any way and have put them up ought to buy me a few points of respect.
2) If I pull over a car driven by a caucasion and he needs the handful of tickets and his vehicle impounded, then that’s what will happen (and has many a time). The difference is that he can at least have a conversation with me. When he goes to court he can’t complain that I did something wrong simply because I had the audacity not to speak his language.
3) I don’t doubt that the large majority of current MS-13 members are American citizens. Since the gang was started in the ’80s, many of the teenage gang members today were born here. However, if you look back at the origins, MS-13 was “born” here from the community of Salvadorans who had fled to our country back then.
4) I’ve yet to say that “illegals” are here ONLY for free services. However, that many illegal immigrants take advantage of the services made available intended for our citizens. Whatever services they DO take advantage of costs LEGAL American citizens TAX DOLLARS that could be better spent.
5) For every study you show me that supports your numbers I can show you one that supports mine. The fact is that statistics can be easily warped and skewed to fit any picture we want to paint. I don’t see where it matters whether a university, “think tank”, govt entity, private collaberation, whatever… I don’t see how it matters WHO does the study as long as the PROCESS is impartial and followed properly.
6) We will have to agree to disagree. There is simply no way you will ever be able to convince me that America is better off for having nearly 10% of our population be illegal immigrants, no matter what country they are illegally here from.
The illegal immigration numbers produced by the US census(10-12 million) are flawed. Illegal aliens because of their very illegality are not going to give truthful answers to census workers and many would not volunteer any information at all. The Bear Stearns study is probably more accurate (20 plus million). It was based on wire transfers and demographic data. The US Border Patrol indicates that for every illegal border jumper they catch, 2-3 get by. Jim Gilchrist in his book with Jerome Corsi using the BP figures estimate there are at least 30 million illegal aliens. According to the Center for Immigration Studies 57% of all illegal aliens are from Mexico, another 20% are from South and Central America. Asia accounts for between 9-16% according to various sources. The rest is from Europe, Canada and the Caribbean. Half of all Mexican and Central American immigrants and one-third of South American immigrants are illegal.
There are at least 50,000 illegal Irish living in this country.
On the point of racial profiling. First Hispanic is not a race and neither is being Mexican. One is an ethnicity and the other a nationality. Knowing that at least 50% of all Mexican and Central American immigrants are here illegally, is it not reasonable to ask Hispanics for immigration papers? There is a 50/50 chance that even if you don’t take into account clothing and regional variations in speech that the person is illegal.
On the topic of free services. From the Center for Immigration Studies:
The proportion of immigrant-headed households using at least one major welfare program is 33 percent, compared to 19 percent for native households.
There is a worker present in 78 percent of immigrant households using at least one welfare program.
It is a well known fact that many illegal alien adults have anchor babies which not only guarantees they get to stay in this country, but can apply for each and every social service available to American citizens. This report came out in January of this year.
New statistics from the Department of Public Social Services reveal that illegal aliens and their families in Los Angeles County collected over $37 million in welfare and food stamp allocations in November 2007 — up $3 million dollars from September, announced Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich.
Twenty five percent of the all welfare and food stamps benefits is going directly to the children of illegal aliens. Illegals collected over $20 million in welfare assistance for November 2007 and over $16 million in monthly food stamp allocations for a projected annual cost of $444 million.
“This new information shows an alarming increase in the devastating impact Illegal immigration continues to have on Los Angeles County taxpayers,” said Antonovich. “With $220 million for public safety, $400 million for healthcare, and $444 million in welfare allocations, the total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year — not including the millions of dollars for education.”
And on the MS13 topic, Frank is right. MS13 originated in El Salvador. The original name was Mara Salvatrucha. It was comprised mostly of guerrillas who fought in El Salvador’s civil war. As the war neared its end, the gang moved operations into the nearby Honduras. In Honduras, membership topped 36,000. The Honduran government went after them with operation Strong Arm. The gang retaliated with an attack on a bus load of passengers near the town of Tegucigalpa. They killed 28 people including 7 small children. With increasing pressure on them the gang moved into Mexico. The gang didn’t really take hold in LA until the 80s. MS-13 was named after “La Mara”, a street in El Salvador and “13th Street” in Los Angeles.
Brad, you mean the Bear Stearns that recently went belly up? That Bear Stearns? Their report was discredited ages ago as being way too inflated. But it still gets cited repeatedly by people trying to make “illegal” immigration sound as scary as possible. 30M is one big scary number alright! Yet anyone with so much as a grain of critical thinking skills knows that one in ten people in the U.S. can’t possibly be “illegal.” That defies all logic and you and Frank know it. (But that won’t stop you.) The 12M number did not come from the Census by the way.
And do you really want to cite Jim Gilchrist the Minuteman founder? You know, the group of armed mostly white, mostly male vigilantes who literally hunt Mexicans in the desert. You’re going to have come up with a more unbiased source I’m afraid.
Oh, and CIS? Is that the same CIS that was an offshoot of FAIR, who was recently classified as a “hate group”? The one that admits on their website that they want ALL immigration cut way down? Not one scholarly book or article would cite such an obviously biased source.
I’m sorry Frank (and Brad) but you’re wrong. Sources really do matter, regardless of how sound the methodology may appear. Like you say, statistics are easy to filter, bias, distort, etc., so if you already know the answer you want, it’s easy as pie to produce a legitimate sounding “study” to support your preconceived conclusions.
That’s what you did here isn’t it? You did a cost/benefit analysis and “forgot” to mention the benefits?
And yes, from your last post, you still seem to me to be a high risk for police racial profiling. I have brown-skinned relatives (citizens all) who speak little English with thick accents, and would probably stammer a lot under stress. Some of them are war veterans Frank, some have kids in Iraq, and one of them has a son who is a police officer. There are millions of brown citizens who look and talk just like them “illegals” you detest so much. According to your posts, you would be “irked” if you pulled one of them over, and by implication, would suspect their legality. You won’t admit it but you are one of those types of people who is intolerant and suspicious of those of us who look different or “tok kinna funnee”. Just go back and read your own posts here: caucasions who speak English to your standards? OK. Everyone else just “irks” you.
Frank, give up on Don, he is a pro-illegal/Mexican supporter. Yes I said it and I am not a racist in anyway, I just prefer to speak the truth, thats all. Don I’ll let you in on a little secret before you start claiming that I myself ‘am xenophobic or racist, I AM HISPANIC; in fact I am the first legal generation from my immediate family here in the U.S. With all that I still cannot defend illegal immigration in any way. After growing up in the worst ghetto in Los Angeles and serving over eight years in the Marine Corps I FEEL how special our nation (America) is. I’ve seen how others live in the world and no matter what you and the other America- haters claim this is the greatest nation in the world, thats why everyone wants to come here. If we allow an uncontrolled influx of illegal persons to enter then our society will inevitably crumble the signs are all around you. Frank you are 100% correct on this issue, I understand that this is a sensitive issue for our society at this time in our history but self preservation must overcome political correctness.
Here you go Brad: “the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), was founded and is funded in large part by John Tanton [well-known nativist] and his organization, the Federation of Americans for Immigration Reform (FAIR). FAIR, a designated hate group, has accepted millions of dollars from the Pioneer Fund, which has been described as a “neo-Nazi organization, tied to the Nazi eugenics program in the 1930s.” There’s your primary source of information on “illegal immigration”. Enjoy.
And leo. My parents were Mexicans. MS13 originated in L.A. formed by Salvadoran immigrants escaping the war in El Salvador, which the U.S. helped finance. I love the U.S. but I don’t define patriotism the way you do. To me it doesn’t mean denying historical facts, being blind to our faults, or flag waving and all that BS. To me, it’s working hard to make it better, which means criticizing its faults as well as its strengths.
I’m not pro-illegal or pro-Mexico as you claim. I want legal immigration too just like all of you. I’ve repeated that a few times. Calling me stupid names like that just makes you seem ignorant and desperate, like you know you have no argument.
As a fellow Hispanic ese, go ahead and support people like Frank at your own peril. I choose to be more cautious about people who are supposed to protect and serve, but who admit that non-caucasions who don’t speak English to their liking “irk” them.
By the way leo, for what it’s worth I have nephews and cousins in Iraq and I think people like you and them are the most patriotic a person can be. That’s the truth!
Here’s a little trivia for you leo. Do you know who Jose Gutierrez was? You should know his name. Follow this link if you don’t:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/heroes/jose.gutierrez.html
Then memorize his name and never forget it.
Adios amigo.
Ok. Lets get real here. Mr. Or Mrs. Quixote, In no way has Frank ever assumed a racial position on the subject.
I don’t know where you get off calling his views racially based. Most of your comments don’t make much sense at all. He already explained his rational for claiming America is 500 years in the making. You on the other hand just won’t let it go along with his economical, police, and mathematical skills either! Stick with the debate, and if you think someone makes a mistake try not to bring it up like a teenager in and argument.
Don Quixote- “What amazes me is that you don’t see your own contradictions. You claim this isn’t about race or xenophobia, and then you immediately proceed to complain about those you pull over who “can’t speak enough English to explain to me why I shouldn’t write him (or her) a book of tickets…”
Ok Don. What Frank said was If he pulled someone over and he had an expired driver’s license from CA, no registration, no insurance, or no paperwork at all on the vehicle, in addition to not being able to speak English, then that would “Irk” him, and I can’t blame him! It’s not about him not being able to speak English Don, but you seem to want to focus only on the speaking part of the engagement. Nevermind that having no registration or insurance is ILLEGAL. Now imagine someone not being able to explain why exactly he/she doesn’t have all that required-by-law stuff. It doesn’t matter what language they speak, but if they are breaking a whole slew of laws and can’t explain themselves then the cop might get kinda…irked.
Don Quixote-”I bet you don’t. You assume people are “illegal” because they can’t speak English to your liking and I bet also because of the color of their skin.”
Ok Don. These “bets” don’t deserve any comments.
Did you make all your money in vegas?
Don Quixote-”I hate to break to you Frank, but your feelings are just a hair away from racial profiling, and if your being “irked” impairs your judgement even subconciously, then it IS profiling. If, God forbid, you ever were granted the authority to enforce immigration law, we know what would happen, don’t we Frank? That’s why in Prince William Co., Virginia, they had to install video cams in patrol cars to ensure police officers (like you) don’t engage in profiling. The authorities already know what will happen!”
Ok Don. First off thank you so so much for lesson on racial profiling. Everyone here is now so much more equipped to handle a racially sensitive engagement, and also very grateful for your knowlegeable insight. Second of all, Many police departments have video cameras mounted in their patrol cars, and have been doin it for a while now. They are on there for many reasons, not just racial profiling. I’m sure Frank could tell us a little bit about it seeing as he was a cop for 26 years. Here’s a newsflash: During those 26 years as a cop he did have the right to enforce immigration laws, or at least help enforce them! And, according to Frank, hasn’t had ONE complaint on him for being racist! That says something. Well says something to me anyway.
Alright about the “redneck” comment Mr. or Mrs Don. What exactly is a redneck? Please explain to everyone what a person has to do to be considered a redneck. I am curious. I have my wonders. I want to know why you feel free to call people racist names, and try to Insinuate the way Frank talks, but so adamently oppose taking a racial stand on things even when no one has except you!!
Give me a break Don Quixote.
Accusations of racism seems to be the only argument you have Don. You never cite sources or facts. You only seem to be able to offer regurgitation of ACLU, SPLC, La Raza, Maldef and MEChA talking points. Obviously you spend lots of time over at DKOS too.
Most people in the anti illegal immigration movement consider the accusation of being called a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center or the ACLU a badge of honor. Both organizations lost much credibility with main stream Americans a long time ago. Only the bleeding heart left still thinks the ACLU defends American civil liberties or the SPLC is going to stand up for poverty stricken Americans.
A charge of being a Nativist in these times is not such a bad thing. The US cannot afford to continue the same immigration policies that it has. All illegal immigration should be stopped. All legal immigration should be reduced. Illegal aliens that are here should be forced to repatriate themselves thru a policy of attrition.
As to the Bear Stearns report, as usual you don’t mention who discredited it, as previously noted you never mention sources. Perhaps it was the PEW Hispanic Center or maybe it was La Raza, MEChA or MALDEF. Many ethnic special interest groups low ball illegal alien figures so as to reduce the true seriousness of the problem. Your description of Minutemen is a true reflection of your lack of knowledge. Do you know any Minutemen? Do you know any members of You Don’t Speak For Me? Have you ever heard Roy Beck of Numbers USA speak or been to a MM meeting? Have you ever been to the border during a MM border watch? Obviously not, because most of what you wrote above is nonsense.
Leo, I salute your service and that of your fallen comrade Jose Gutierrez.
Don, you forgot about the biggest Mexican gang around, La EME, otherwise known as the Mexican Mafia and their hundreds of thousands of misguided foot soldiers that plague our society on a daily basis. Now I wonder why you didn’t mention those groups. See Don, what you fail to grasp is a key concept liberals are afraid of, Nationalism, its not a dirty word nor does it make you a neo-con to espouse it. Almost every other nation publicly expresses their pride in their county, even in our county they do so loudly and boisterously as seen in the massive demonstrations held a couple of years ago where Mexican nationals danced through our streets waving the Mexican flag in our faces. If we do not begin to protect our Borders, Language, and Culture then we will be no more.
Wow this is mind numbing. Ok Don I am no street cop just a Jailer but I have lived and worked in both California and now Texas, in my jail the population of Illegal immigrants is (and I am just making an educated guess here chief so don’t go throwing stats at me) is about 20%. Now that’s just one jail in the state of Texas, and yes as much as it may “irk” you to no end the MAJORITY are Hispanic’s from Mexico. Do I see it as a problem that I have to see these people (oh yes I said these people bet you can find a raciest comment in that) get away with crimes because they get deported…then only to see them here again a year later? You’re darn right I do. Oh yea and the idea that thinking someone is racist because they get “irked” because they can’t communicate with and individual is dumb. I mean are you freaking kidding me. The whole profiling thing? ITS YOUR JOB. Racial profiling was designed so an individual could not be pulled over or arrested for the color of his skin. No other reason. But it’s gone way farther than that. Now Cops are being accused of it just for doing their jobs. Oh and yea if I get a guy in this jail that speaks no English about 9 out of 10 times he’s illegal. So tell me Don if you worked in a city that was overrun with Russian mob and you pulled over a black sedan with a big white guy wearing a $1000 suit who only spoke Russian you would not be thinking, this guys a mobster? And before you post in comment to that one let me say if you don’t your running head first into a bad day sir. Oh and sir just a question, it’s not ok for Frank to attack an issues of illegal immigration by mentioning it’s mostly Hispanics but it’s ok for you to call a white man a redneck? I think you need to take a look at yourself boss, sounds to me like you got a little racist tendincies yourself. And in closing let me say if it walks like a duck acts like a duck quacks like a duck…I’ll bet you dollars to pesos hoss ,it aint a cow. Oh and before I get attacked by Don…remember bud I am just a “Redneck” from Texas what do I know.
P.s sorry I don’t write as elegantly as the rest of ya.
What is the problem? The United States of America was formed to enable then English subjects to be free to say their true thoughts, choose their own religion(s), et al, or simply to choose their own path and destiny as Americans in the republic of the United States. We Americans, whether native born or naturalized, are still finding our path and destiny, though because of our growth and diversity, there is confusion about which path and what destiny. However, America, by tradition and law, is for Americans and its LEGAL residents. Illegal / undocumented aliens is a moot question. They are in the United States illegally. They break our laws when entering, while remaining, and by doing any other actions (receiving benefits, working, or violating any laws applicable to citizens and non-citizens alike) which have been codified as acts subject to punishment by the imposing of specific penalties upon the person or legal entity performing the illegal act. The laws to take this under control exist at the federal and state levels. What doesn’t exist is the necessary and acceptable level tenacity to do the work, nor the devotion to our nation, its laws and citizens to recognize its importance. From the White House down to the enforcers the gaps of consistency have dragged us down to where we are fighting and feuding amongst ourselves about how we should treat criminals who have usurped working America’s lifeblood in numerous ways, placing the importance and priorities of illegal aliens above fellow American citizens and America’s non-citizen legal residents. Get to know your local, state and federal employees, department heads, law makers and judiciary. There are people at every level of our society who are enabling the illegals. Illegals themselves, and anyone or any legal entity who enables them, should be dealt with as prescribed by appropriate laws. Part of the “punishment” for illegal aliens is deportation to their country of origin. Enforce the law! Employers who do not obtain proper documentation and / or knowingly employ persons not entitled to work in the United States violate specific laws with specific penalties. Enforce the law! Communities that provide, by common practice and / or locally codified rules, a “sanctuary” environment are in violation of several federal laws for which the penalties include loss of federal (taxpayer) funds and subsidies. Enforce the law! The U.S. DHS has the funds to work toward completing “the fence” on our southern border. The parts of the fence that have been built, both federally and privately, have shown that it works. It is the security of our nation and its people that are at risk. Some say it is discrimination. There is a terrible problem on our southern border. Persons from many nations enter Mexico illegally to join up with Mexicans choosing to enter the U.S. illegally, The fence is discriminating against criminals. We’ve always done that, what’s the problem? One of the former attractions of the U.S. to foreigners was that the rule of law was a cornerstone of our society. Now, one of the reasons that foreigners flock here illegally is because they have learned how misused our justice system is and the extreme stratification of our society which, since the brief unity of and immediately after 9/11, has made us both appear, and in some ways actually be, weaker. Political correctness and political considerations should be tossed out and what needs to be done to secure our nation, not isolate it from the rest of the world, just secure it, should be done with expediency. We live in a dangerous world with some people whose goal is to do whatever it takes to take over any area or nation they can and impose a harsh, strict, intolerant, religious based society. These people HAVE taken advantage of our self generated immigration weaknesses to illegally enter the U.S. to commit and plan terrorist or terrorist related acts and subvert certain segments or groups of our society. How did I transgress from “simple” illegal” aliens to terrorists? Very simply, the same shortcomings and weaknesses within all the levels of government and society have aided both types to enter our country and injure it. How many illegals there are doesn’t matter. How much they do or don’t contribute to our nation, doesn’t matter. How much any part or segment of our society would be “inconvenienced” by their departure doesn’t matter. Our history has shown and proven that our society and economy adjust, ultimately, positively to negative happenings. Honestly, though, I can’t picture the loss of up to 30 million individual illegal drains on America’s natural, social and financial resources a negative happening. At worst it would be a temporary inconvenience to, mainly, those who have enabled and condoned it.
As a nation, we need to wake up, accept every American as our brother and sister and work together to get our nation working as a Nation.
(So people won’t wonder when they start picking my commentary apart – I am white with Native American and European ancestry, over 50, Viet Nam veteran, retired military, retired LEO, a federal employee, Catholic, registered republican but independently minded. Most of my working life has been in intelligence and law enforcement. There is no REALLY good candidate left running for President, only a lesser of evils. Obama didn’t really say anything of substance or that mattered in his recent “racism speech”. Get the transcript of it and REALLY read and study it. I don’t see everything as simply “black and white” and I do have compassion, children and grandchildren. I do have a firm sense of, or belief in, what is right and wrong.)
Overpopulation, congestion, urban sprawl, pollution, environmental damage, crime, diminishing resources, Diseases, lack of affordable housing, depressed wages, underground economic, fraudulent documents, identity thief, tax invasion, soaring crime rate, increased tax burdens, overcrowded schools, uneducated children, overcrowded prisons, inadequate health care, the balkanization of our communities and a large and growing population with loyally to other Nations, the overall decline in our quality of life are the result of unconstrained illegal immigration! America cannot accept the worlds population of other Nations Criminals, Undesirables and Uneducated Peons. Too many people chasing too few resources is not sound economic, social or cultural policy. This is not racism but pragmatism & common sense! Every industrialized nation has taken steps to end illegal immigration and to limit legal immigration to only that which is prudent, demonstrably necessary, and above all other concerns, in the best interest of their native population. Its insane to suggest that America should not do likewise!
The illegal invasion can only be understood by the corrupting influence on politicians of money for cheap labor for the Republicans or the Welfare votes for the Democrats that makes them dishonor their Oath of Office, the US Constitution against Invasion, and Enforcement of our Immigration Laws!
As an employee of DHS I get first had experience at the Federal govt’s unwillingness to deal with this issue. The whole purpose of LEGAL immigration is to know who is coming into our country, do they have a criminal background or communicable disease, will they be a burden on society? All of these are classes on inadmissibility. The U.S. taxpayer (or any country for that matter) However there is NO support from Washington much less at a state or local level. I get the pleasure of releasing those who admit they have broken our laws, work/live here illegally, etc. Until Washington is willing to deal with this issue and NOT pander to a population that can’t even vote or pay taxes (many get paid under the table). No green card holders can’t vote, at least not according to the INA. When I took an oath I was sworn to uphold ALL laws not those the were convenient for politicians. Will I pay $5 for a tomato as said in a previous comment? Perhaps but since the taxpayer educations the anchor babies, feeds them, pays for their healthcare, in the long run I am better off.
Frank; Your initial post is incredible and I agree 100%. We have to figure out a way to get back control of the country. I was referred to your blog by a friend and will be back again. Keep up the good work.
(I sent you an email)
James aka Political Disgust
http://www.politicaldisgust.com
I think we are all missing the point by readily accepting and using the drive by media definitions. One may not become an immigrant to the US unless they have entered the immigration process. And once you have completed the process, you are no longer an immigrant, you are a citizen. So using all the media fluff terms to describe these foreign national insurgents, criminals, and terrorists, just defeats the purpose. So lets call an insurgent an insurgent, and a terrorist a terrorist!
On the numbers. Frank has done a masterful job of painting the grip picture of our pending demise. But it’s worse than he depicts. It is pretty well historically documented that there are over 1 million illegals from Colombia alone, in the Houston area. Add onto that another 2-3 million mexicans, and whatever else is out there, and we jump to 50 million illegals in a few seconds. The basis and source documents for all the legal powers in the US derives from the bible and the constitution with attachments. Once we have more illegals, or illegals plus foreign born immigrants plus foreign born citizens than we have American citizens, then all of our reason to be will hang in the balance. And since the dhimicrats seem to think that you can legislate anything you want, any time you want, no matter how illegal or rediculous, at that point the US will become another Calcutta….
We need to get back to basics! The only thing that has a chance of saving us as a country, nation, language, and culture, is more stringent adherence to our founding laws and guidance. -The Constitution- and we will also need to recognize that everything written/recorded/directed in the constitution was a wake up call. All the rights that are in the source documents existed before the constitution was written. So technically, the courts can not refute them. As an example to make your head swim, it is the constitution that recognized the legal system set up by the churches. The constitution generated the US court system. So since the 2nd amendment preceded the constitution, the courts have no say over whether it should be done away with or modified. And yet, look at the melee we are into today over that issue.
We need to go back to the constitution and follows it’s direction about much of the problems we are having these days. -another thought provoker- the constitution says that anyone born in the United States at the time the constitution (all pending US citizens) was written is a US citizen. It however does not say that anyone born inside the US after the constitution was ratified automatically became a US citizen. It inferred that only children born to current and current pending US citizens would automatically become a US citizen. Nowhere does it say that all children born to criminal insurgents, terrorists, and perpetrators of illegal activites who are foreign nationals at the time, are even entitled to become a US citizen. And lets not forget the non voting non rights of convicted felons that the dhimicrats are trying to weasel a way around.
Lets be safe out there!
Yes, illegal immigration is illegal and is a problem. I’ve never said it isn’t. What I argue is that the discussion devolves into xenophobic scapegoating - some of which I see here.
the thing is, it’s simple to blame society’s ills on those who look different and speak a different language (God forbid in a country of Free speech that occur) when there are much larger issues that affect us everyday, as well as those issues.
How’s your mortgage looking? Thank god I own my house now, but I know tons of brothers who may lose their houses. Now, is this illegal immigration’s fault? I’m sure someone will find a way to blame it on them - and using BEAR STEARNS as a source. Don’t you read the news? We, as taxpayers are subsidizing BEAR STEARNS losses. Their greed took them to the brink of annihilation and we bail them out. Where’s the outrage? Where are the cries for your tax dollars?
Illegal immigration is Illegal, and is a problem. But there are shades of gray, and we all know this about crimes. If you don’t believe that, honestly tell me who hasn’t let someone off of a ticket with just a warning?
I’m not saying illegal immigration is a jaywalking offense, or fail to signal, but we need to honestly assess the where it falls on our enforcement scale.
“The illegal invasion can only be understood by the corrupting influence on politicians of money for cheap labor for the Republicans or the Welfare votes for the Democrats that makes them dishonor their Oath of Office, the US Constitution against Invasion, and Enforcement of our Immigration Laws!”
That’s exactly the xenophobic scapegoating I’m talking about. You seem to think that these ‘uneducated peons’ have the insidious ability to corrupt big businesses because … well, I don’t know how to finish that sentence and you don’t either.
I understand it’s easier to point to the finger at those with different skin and speech. But come on.
Do you really believe that illegal immigrants wield that much influence over big businesses?
Where’s your outrage at the businesses?
I’ve said many times I’m all for strict employee citizenship testing as a way to dry up the stream of immigrants.
[…] read a GREAT post by Frank Borelli, Editor and Chief of Officer.com about Illegal Immigration, and I could not agree more. The bottom line of Borelli’s recent post is that there are a TON […]
TuffCop said: “That would be a great argument except that there are a few constitutional lawyers right now who think the D.C. gun ban is fine under the 2nd Amendment.”
I think that is a misleading characterization. The ones I respect agree there is no 2A issue with the DC gun ban, but there is under state constitutions. The DC gun ban is a democratically imposed ban approved by voters, not a rouge attempt by a few in power.
A proud and honorable way to become an American Citizen:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/27/greencard.marine.folo/index.html
This is not a balanced look at the issue. You cite only statistics that show the costs of illegals. You have no information about how much money they are making many people in this country.
Many illegals pay income tax and SS tax, and will never see the money come back to them. Many do not as well, but at least point out the other side of the coin . . .