Drunken Cops
Tim Dees
Editor-in-Chief
Officer.com
This column isn’t just about cops that get drunk. This column is about cops that get drunk and then drive cars. To commit the offense of drunk driving in this context demonstrates a level of irresponsibility and bad judgment that far exceeds that of the typical drunk driver.
Drunk driving has always been one of my pet peeves. When I was a cop, I was “the DUI guy.” Sometimes I had DUI enforcement as my primary assignment, but more often I would just find them (in the city where I worked, they would find you if you stayed in one place long enough), or other officers would call me to take them off their hands, something I was all too happy to do. They would write a brief supplemental report detailing their reason for the stop, and I would take it from there. Unless the case went to trial, they were free to resume whatever they had been doing. I knew that this person was not going to be the cause of someone having to be scraped off of their windshield later in the day, and that gave me considerable satisfaction.
Last week, one of the top stories on Officer.com detailed the DUI arrest of a deputy sheriff in Elko County, Nevada. That would have made the local news, to be sure, but it went national because the arresting officer was the deputy’s husband, who was also an Elko County deputy. There was considerable speculation on the O.com discussion forum as to what brought this about. While it’s possible that the arresting deputy was a zealot in the Tim Dees tradition (when I read the headline, I couldn’t help but think how many people would see that and think, “I didn’t know Dees had moved to Elko”), the commentators thought it was more likely that there was already a nasty divorce in progress, or that the wife had a long-term drinking problem that her husband decided to act on once and for all. All of this, of course, is speculation. I don’t know the people involved and I haven’t heard any more about it, so I’m content to let that one take its course through the justice system.
The incident made me consider some of the reasons that cops just shouldn’t get busted for drunk driving. Now, I’m not talking about the “professional courtesy” angle, as I think in this case creates more problems than it solves. I think you have to consider the following points:
- Knowing Your Limit: Every cop gets some basic training in drunk driving investigation in the police academy. That training invariably includes the distribution of a wallet card with a grid printed on it. One axis of the grid has body weight; the other has the number of drinks one can consume, usually in an hour. It is the most natural of reactions to measure your own alcohol tolerance against this chart and make a mental note of how many beers will put you over the limit. I did it, and I didn’t (and don’t) even drink alcohol.
- Knowing the Consequences: In that same class, everyone learns what happens to those people who are convicted of drunk driving on their first offense, second offense, etc. In most every state, you will lose your driver’s license somewhere in the sequence, although the period of suspension and the circumstances of it vary. The cops also know that a basic qualification to be a law enforcement officer is “Must possess a valid [your state] driver’s license.” If you suddenly don’t have that license, your employer can show you the door. Even if you ignore the other consequences, like jail, community service, victim impact panels, counseling or rehab, and the mandatory payment of lots of money, the driver’s license issue ought to be a big red flag. If you’re pleading with the arresting officer on some variation of “But I’ll lose my job!” you’re in the same boat with truck drivers, UPS delivery guys, cabbies, and a number of other folks whose livelihood also depends on their driver’s license. The difference is that most of them didn’t get this made expressly clear in their basic vocational training.
- But I Had to Get Home Somehow: This is the big one. I can understand, and even sympathize to a limited degree, that one might get carried away on a night out with the guys or girls, and realize at the end of the evening that they have had Too Much Fun. They didn’t intend to drink that much, but now they have, and they don’t know how they’re going to get home. I have attended gatherings of cops where a few drank more than they intended, and the smarter ones walked up to me and handed me their keys. I never regarded it as an imposition to see that they got home safely.
But, what if you aren’t with other cops, or what if they are all in as bad shape as you are? Friends, this is the time to play the professional courtesy card. Ask yourself, “If one of my fellow officers called me and asked for a ride home so he wouldn’t have to drive drunk, what would I say?” I don’t know the cop that wouldn’t be warming up the family truckster. It might be inconvenient, but it beats reading about your fellow officer in the newspaper the next day, and then being reminded of that by every drunk driver you arrest for the next year.
What if you’re not in your jurisdiction? My bet is that the professional courtesy card will play almost as well in any police jurisdiction in the country. I get around to quite a few jurisdictions, and I have asked many a cop (of various ranks) what they would do if they were at work and got a call from an officer they didn’t know, asking for a ride so they wouldn’t drive drunk. The answer has always been the same. There might be some low-grade consequences. Your home agency might get a call, and/or you might find yourself having a chat with someone concerning your drinking habits. This latter event could be the best thing that ever happened to you. But, no matter what, you wouldn’t wake up in the slammer, trying to decide what to tell your wife, husband, sergeant, chief, etc.
Several cops I worked with have gone to prison for drunk driving, either because they caused an injury, or for multiple offenses. In every case, I suspect that they would have gotten there a lot sooner had they not hung their badge in the face of an officer who pulled them over and pleaded for a break. That’s a tough call, and it’s unfair to the cop that is just trying to do his job. Early in my career, I lacked the guts to do what I knew I was supposed to do, and let the offender go. Not so coincidentally, every one of those cops eventually lost his job directly or indirectly because of their alcoholism. Had they hurt or killed someone before they made it home, I almost certainly would have lost my job much sooner. The life and job you save may not always be your own.
For those of you who are formulating your comments, please spare me the “a cop never busts another cop” hate mail. This is an area where we’re going to have to agree to disagree. If you’re the officer who stops a drunk cop, give some thought to both the short- and long-term consequences of whatever decision you will have to make, and decide your course of action now. And if you’re the cop that is counting on the brotherhood of the badge to keep you immune from drunk driving laws, know that the number of officers who have bought into your insurance plan gets smaller every day.
Here’s a website you may find useful. http://www.addicted.com is a site for friends, families, and those who suffer from various addictions.
This is a good topic for the BOP or local union to discuss with their membership, and have a local policy for offering help getting home or learning to control the drinking in the first place. Knowing how to deal with the solution to the problem of having to much to drink and drive safely before you find yourself in that situation could go a long way towards keeping officers off the streets when they shouldn’t be.
I agree with you 100%. I recently had an off-duty officer rearend a mini-van causing injuries to the occupants of the mini-van. The first thing she did when I got to the scene was badge me. She couldn’t believe that she was being arrested. She had a BAC of .32% and “I’ll still the a**” for locking her up. She went around telling everyone in the neighboring departments all about it, bad mouthing me and my department. She put me into the position of having to arrest her. If we want to be treated like professionals then we have to act like one in all aspects of your lives.
It’s a different culture today–DWI is verbotten–zero tolerance. You have to know that going in, if you’re going to drink and drive, the consequences are plain as day. In fact, today’s environment is one in which the cop that gives the drunk cop a break is as culpable as his fellow officer that he lets go. It is what it is, recognize it and if you drink don’t drive.
That sure seems to be the mindset of this new generation of cops. Everyone gets arrested, but yet the brass preaches about community policing. I’ll tell you I’ve given several citizens a ride home that were DUII and I’ll do the same for a cop. You can call their supervisor and let the department deal with it. You don’t arrest fellow cops. I’m sick to even see this posted on Officer.Com
A very inspiring article. I am a firm believer in not putting other officers in the position to have to do their job. It’s called respect. My co-worker and friend can just as easly kill my family members by drinking and driving just as easy as a stranger. Zero tolerance. “Real Cops” don’t put others in that position. Excellent Article!
This is a very interesting dilemma you’ve presented. Thanks for the insights.
Good article. I am usually a designated driver at parties since I hardly ever drink alcohol. I was born and raised that way.
My responses is to Rod’s post. It appears from what you are saying that you would give preferential treatment to a drunk driver because he/she is employed as a law enforcement officer - someone who should know more than anyone out there what the consequences of DUI are. Where do you draw the line on your personal scale of getting a free pass for driving drunk or getting arrest? What about a doctor? A social worker who helps the homeless? My second point is this - please explain your personal theory of not arresting DUI offenders because they wear a badge to the family members of people who have been killed by drunk drivers. I really want to hear you try to justify your theory. Rod, it sounds like it has been far too long since you have read your sworn Oath of Office or your Code of Ethics. Doing what is right is not always popular, and doing what is popular is not always right.
Nice job, and well said.
Thank you. Your artical is outstanding, and every cop should be held to a higher standard.
Tim:
+1….
There are a couple of other problems here….
The Lawyers, and what we’d loosely call “public opinion”….
Time was, you’d let a drunk drive home (or follow you home), or give him/her a ride. I’m an old rent-a-cop. A City PD Traffic Investigator caught a DUI one night about 40 years ago and decided that the guy would be best served by being transported back to the hotel he’d just checked out of, and allowed to sleep it off.
You can’t take a chance on that today. If the guy’s car had been damaged, or if he managed to go out and walk into a bus, guess who’d get sued….
Same issues if you take a drunk home, or let him/her continue to drive. ANYTHING happens, and you’re going to get sued. (Not to mention El Hefe’s response. Tim’s former Chief was known to spout fire and steam just hearing that he’d shown up for work…. You get the idea.)
The other problem is a little more “internal”…. It appears to differ from the East to West Coasts, but in many cases a LEO can expect preferential treatment for anything short of major felonies. Even LEO’s who don’t really approve of some (or all) of this tend to note the area involved and sort of shake our heads.
The problem is that the general public is much more aware of such thing nowadays, and it gets harder to justify such treatment “in the press”. (The curse of the camcorder?)
This seems to result in citations (or worse) for things that would have been good for just a nice lecture because _somebody_ would be reviewing the tape….
I don’t think anybody wins here, but hudd’s comment: “‘Real Cops’ don’t put others in that position.” is the way it’s going to have to go.
(As for discretion to others, that’ll have to come back, too, but “speeder doesn’t get a ticket” ain’t news.)
Regards,
Stu.
Good article. It’s a double edged sword. When you work in a violent inner city you depend on your “brothers” so you look out for them off duty as you would on. More so then working in the burbs or the sticks. I’m not saying it’s right. You need to use discretion, afterall we are all we have.
Great Subject,
As a rookie I was once put in this position as well, a night out with the sgt. and we make a stop on a speeding car. the driver turns out to be the sgt.s best friend and a local deputy sheriff. The drunk cop,for fun has my sgt. P.B.T. him and he blows a .2%BAC there were three other passangers (none of which were cops) and they were drunk as well. The Sgt. kicks them loose and tells them to have a nice night. Luckily they made it home safe, but I had nightmares over this. Cutting a fellow officer a break for speeding is one thing, but like hudd said, I will not have a drunk kill one of my family members!
Great article & some very challenging issues, but, the bottom line is if you drink & drive you are impaired to begin with and as an officer who wants to protect others you should not become the assailant. That is different than most other violations where you are not impaired in various ways & can make appropriate adjustments to your behavior, such as slowing down if there is more traffic. There are a lot of other better ways & resources than drinking for dealing w/ job stress or other problems in life. It’s tragic to think that a police officer would not back up another officer because one prefers alcohol more than the other. Of course, it might be worse if the alcoholic cop were the back up. I wouldn’t want that because it’s even more to worry about than the bad guy(s). Frankly, brothers & sisters, it’s time to grow up & stand for whats right & not for what’s convenient. There are enough liabilities out there & we are cops who do not need to help our detractors tear us down. You chose to drink enough to become impaired. You chose to operate a 4000 lbs. vehicle in public while impaired. You chose to endanger everyone in your path, including yourself. How would you feel if a drunk crashed into you or someone you cared about? How do you feel about people flying past stop signs without stopping? It all seems too needlessly dangerous & costly in terms of injuries & lives ruined. There are enough possibilities for things to go wrong that are purely accidental. We should not be contributing to the hazards. There are also enough problems trying to get Gov’t.’s to hire cops, so we should not be volunteering to throw our careers away. I have had my own challenges & fully realize how difficult life can be, but, there are better ways to deal with things than alcohol &/or drugs & we cannot afford to get careless with this. Yeah, those other cops can be a royal pain in the butt, but, they are the same people who will probably die for you too. DO NOT put them in a bad situation where they have to honorably do their duty for the community they are sworn to protect because YOU made a poor, stupid & dangerous choice. There are a few cops whom I do not like, but, only a very few. The vast majority of them are great people and my heroes. We have to start trying to help ourselves & each other out BEFORE we meet each other at a DUI stop/crash so we can be there for our families, friends, each other & the public during the good times & when they need us most. I have certainly appreciated the support that I knew I could depend on when I needed help. Thanks T.D.
Tim,
Great article. When I was the academy supervisor I would tell young officers to arrest drunk drivers, all drunk drivers. The street cops came after me with a vengence. They couldn’t believe I was telling cops to arrest other cops. It’s amazing what we think we are owed just because we are cops.
There is less and less tolerance for drunk driving in Minnesota. I talked to a Deputy Chief in Minneapolis recently and he told me that the Minneapolis Police Department was averaging more than 2 officers per month being arrested for DUI. Just recently a former partner of mine was complaining to me because she got a speeding ticket after flashing her badge to a small town cop. She didn’t deny speeding but she was still mad that she got a ticket.
Drunk driving is a crime. It kills more people than the most vicious gangs and yet some cops still think we should give them a free ride? I don’t think so.
After reading your article, I can say that question has been placed in front of me several times in my eight year career. To begin, I’m an officer with a large State Traffic Enforcement agency and already held to a higher standard than the local PD’s and Sheriff’s Deputies. Within the “Oath of Honor” that I know and hold myself to everyday, there is a section that speaks for itself: Be loyal to my fellow officers, respect and obey my seniors in rank and enforce the law without fear, favor or descrimination. Simply put, if you don’t enforce the law equally for all, then you are asking me to defy the US Constitution, Federal/ State laws and the respect the members of my department have forged over the last 78 years. For speeding, I can cut a cop a break just as I do for the regular citzen, but DUI, forget it. They’ve seen the horrors it causes, know the science and slow reaction times while driving under the influence and are better informed than the normal citizen. Way to many officers have been killed performing their duties by DRUNKS. Now why should I allow another cop to kill my beat partner?
Well spoken article! I, earlier in my career, gave a neighboring city employee (not a cop, but none the less had a high profile supervisory position)some professional courtesy, which came back to “bite me in the butt”. I agree, it is one thing to extend a courtesy to a fellow LEO in regards to speeding, stop sign, etc., but when it comes to DUI, that is where courtesy stops, and professionalism begins. It is our DUTY to remove these persons from the road, regardless of their profession, and consistency is what keeps us winning cases in court. How do you explain that the LEO got driven home, while the local defense attorney went to jail? When you lose your integrity, you have lost everything in this profession. At least, that is my opinion.
When I extended professional courtesy to this particular arrest, at least he didn’t “just go home”. I called his Chief, and cited him to court after breath test. Kept his OL info off the air, and figured better for his Chief to deal with him in the long run. Needless to say, after a jury trial and things were settled, I found a 3 page write up in my personal file. They could not reprimand me for violating any laws or operating procedure, just the simple fact I “didn’t follow the usual procedure for DUI arrests”.
Lesson learned, but would I do it again…NO. At the point it becomes an issue with a fellow officer, it could best be handled with the advice of the on-duty supervisor. At least you will have another opinion to fall back on.
Best to all, and stay safe!
I could not agree more! Excellent article.
The Brotherhood of the Badge is exactly what it sounds like. A family. What do parents do when their children are astray? They hold them accountable. I’m not saying write other cops for infractions like speeding, that would be stupid. But at some level we need to stop making excuses for each other and do the mature, morally straight thing. It does NOT say “exempt from drunk dirving laws” in the benefits section of my job description. Grow a pair and enforce what you have sworn to do.
The foundation of any good brotherhood is a mutual understanding and respect for standards and accountability.
Ray, I don’t know what state you work in but the state that I live in and work as a local cop has very little respect for vehicle enforcement. They are in noway held to a higher standard than my department hold’s its officers. They are as a matter of fact, looked upon as a joke.
Just wanted to let you know that you hit it right on the head. My department is now going thru this very issue. One of the local PD’s arrested one of our officer’s and all that I have been hearing is that it’s a disease. I focus on drunk driving at my PD and I don’t ever remember a bar being a medical treatment facility. Own up to what you have done and for those of us who do our job and deal with “one of our own” be respectful, but we need to do our job as we would with Joe Citizen.
Good lord. Everyone into the deep shelters, its a level 2 self-righteous wanna-be command officers alert, complete with another east coast/west coast shot, and quotes from the code of ethics.
1st statement: NO ONE, BADGE OR NOT, SHOULD BE DRIVING BLIND DRUNK. ‘Nuff said.
2nd Statement: Bend metal/hurt anyone and there are consequences. Doesn’t really matter who you are at that point. It us up to all of us to keep it from getting to this point for civilians and coppers.
3rd statement: If you have never chosen to give a break to any citizen for a traffic offense (without bending metal/hurting anyone) you need to seek other employment. One of the most powerful tools issued to you is not on your hip, its between your ears in the form of discretion. If you are proud of being a “I ticket everyone” type of officer, you do not get the goals of traffic enforcement, and DESERVE to be replaced by photo-radar. It follows the same ethics you do.
4th Statement: Drunks kill, maim, ruin lives, etc. No s###. IF you are a cop, and if you have more than a few years on, you know that. Bringing it up here is insulting. You re not just preaching to the choir, you are talking down to it. Save the drama for your speech to the MADD mothers.
All that being said, some of the attitudes here make me very sad. And some of you are teaching in academies? And you are surprised that the guys from the streets jumped on you? Hmmm. You should probably switch to a community policing unit or teach DARE instead. Heaven help our next generation.
OK, everyone. Your oath, your code of ethics, tells you to properly enforce the law in an equitable way. Very good. I’m on your side. But…
What I’m from some of the posters and from some seriously out of touch people is: never give a cop a break, the y should know better, hold cops to higher standards, preserve the public’s trust, if you don’t the streets will run red with the blood of our families, etc, blah blah blah. Once again, some of you who claim to be thinking, reasoning law enforcement officers say NO breaks for cops under any circumstances. This is, in my humble opinion, a load of horse dung.
No, I have NEVER just kicked anyone loose to drive off drunk. That is just stupid, unsafe for all and reinforces bad behavior. But, on some occasions, I’ve taken citizens home. I’ve called for rides. I’ve thrown keys into fields. I’ve given some lectures of my own. Not to everyone, of course; I’ve arrested a lot of drunks. Best of all, I’ve been thanked down the line by the drivers and their family members, who said lessons were learned and lives changed. It was the proper enforcement action.
So, IN THE INTERESTS OF EQUALITY AND FAIRNESS: I will always explore these options for a fellow cop who has not bent metal or hurt anyone. Arrest is the LAST resort, not the first. And yes, I might just give them a bit more consideration, because unless you are an arrogant and/or stupid bastard, I will not write another officer a ticket. Its an option on the table, but the threshold is set much higher. There. I said it.
Why would I do that? Because cops relate to cops; we can be blunt. We can call them words and lay out issues that would buy you a citizen’s complaint from a civilian. We can call spouses, fellow coppers and their agency to help adjust the situation. I have no issues reconciling those actions with the same commitment to law enforcement the self-righteous have. If you think reaching for your cuffs is your best option *because* its a fellow officer, you should be thinking smarter. Or you are in the wrong business.
And…Sigh. Are we at this again? The east coast/ west coast thing came up in the Police Week postings. Being in the Midwest, I see both coasts as being equal, this “west coast has more ethics” attitude is at best very much flawed. Certain west coast agencies have been blinded by the hype. Appearing in movies and TV more often does not mean you are the best, just conveniently located for filming.
Finally to the last poster, Ray and the people nodding in agreement: I’m sure you are proud of being “…an officer with a large State Traffic Enforcement agency…”, but spare us the “…already held to a higher standard than the local PD’s and Sheriff’s Deputies.” I’m sure you are proud of your agency as I am mine. Maybe your rules are tighter, maybe you have to put your hat on whenever you get out of the car, or fill out more forms. The bottom line is it doesn’t make you better. Gosh, you’re probably accredited and everything. State wide just means you’re larger. Note well: Phrases like that just make you sound pompous. We are all held equally accountable for our actions, regardless of agency, by the law, the public, and the courts.
First of all, we as police officers are human and make mistakes. I have no problem at all with seeing to it an officer makes it home safely. As for arrest or not, it depends on attitude. You treat me like a professional officer that i am and I want treat you like an ordinary drunk driver. Again, it’s about attitude. Officers are allowed to have a good time and we are human. If you as an officer expect the “Red Carpet” treatment maybe you are in the wrong line of work. However, if you expect a little professional courtesy and do not make a habit of it, I am willing to help. After all, who else is going to look out for you. If my brothers in Law Enforcement don’t then we have nothing. Doctors look out for there own as well as attorneys. Law Enforcement officers should too. Again, as long as it doesn’t become a habit or a problem.
I will not write another officer a ticket. Its an option on the table, but the threshold is set much higher.
—————–
As a law-abiding citizen, I want to thank you for confirming the popular opinion. People may say “yes sir, sir/no sir” but they look at you no differently than a politician or a gang banger. Like the man said, if you don’t enforce the laws equally, you are subverting the Constitution and everything your badge stands for. Just my two cents. Have a nice day.
MR. KRUPAK, PPPPLLLLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEEEE! SAVE YOUR EDITORIAL FOR THE LIBERAL “LA TIMES.” EVIDENTLY YOU HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO POST YOUR CONTENT OF LEO’S VOICING THEIR OWN OPINION ABOUT A TOPIC THAT AFFECTS US, OUR FELLOW OFFICERS AND THE PUBLIC. WE ALL WOULD HELP OUR FELLOW BROTHER WITH A RIDE FROM THE LOCAL BAR, BUT IF YOU DON’T CALL YOUR FELLOW BROTHER, TURN ON THE IGNITION AND START DOWN THE ROAD, THEN YOU HAVE MADE YOUR OWN DECISION. SO SPARE US YOUR BULL###T. APPARENTLY YOU ARE CUDDLING UP TO THE LOCAL POPULATION TO CONTINUE RECEIVING A PAYCHECK, BUT THE MAJORITY OF US WILL NOT. IF YOU ARE TOO LAZY TO ARREST A DUI AND TAKE THEM TO JAIL, THEN FIND A NEW JOB. THE DRIVERS AND FAMILIES ARE THANKING YOU ALRIGHT, WITH ANOTHER PITCHER OF BEER AT THE BAR AND NO FEAR OF TAKING AN INNOCENT VICTIM OUT. OH! BY THE WAY YOU CAN CALL ME WHATEVER YOU LIKE (POMPOUS, ETC.), ‘CAUSE I’VE HEARD EVERY FREAKIN’ NAME IN EVERY LANGUAGE (CHNIESE, SPANISH, GERMAN, RUSSIAN, VIETNAMES, …). AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE PUBLIC WILL STILL KNOW THAT MY PARTNERS AND I ARE DOING THE JOB AND SAVING LIVES. BY THE WAY GET OUT OF YOUR LITTLE TOWN AND JOIN ME FOR A DAY IN SOUTH LOS ANGELES, YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING.
I don’t know about other agencies, but I have been involved in many conversations with fellow officers from my agency who often comment about how many arestees fail to take responsbility for their own actions. I’m no boy scout, but I can tell you that I have to agree that the officer who drinks and drives has to take responsbility for his or her own actions. The person you really feel for is the officer who makes the stop and gets put into the trick bag.
WOW… talk about a anti leo site.. I do not, never have and never will arrest a brother officer from any jurisdiction on a bullcrap misdemeanor charge. End statement.
As police officers we are held to a higher standard than regular citizens. We cannot violate the laws we have toenforce
WOW is right….Its sad that officers don’t think a fellow officer is entitled to the same discretion we would use when dealing with the public. I have arrested drunks and I have taken drunks home. It is the totality of the situation. I don’t work in a small town and some nights we are too busy and too short staffed to waste two to three hours processing a drunk and leaving our partners hanging when people are being shot, robbed and beaten. I have been to my share of DUI accidents and have been the victim of a drunk that T-boned me in my squad, he was DOA at the scene. I agree with Krupak if anyone drives drunk and causes a accident they made their own bed. But I guess for some state agencies arresting a off-duty officer for DUI is a big prize.
Good Lord. I didn’t expect the Spanish inquisition. Glad to see there is some support, also. You’re right, mike. I’m not sure why I bother dropping by, this site is going anti-cop
I stand by my statements. I never said cops should have immunity from arrest. I only said that we do everyone — including the community — disservice if we a) stop using discretion and b) *automatically* arrest our own because ‘they should know better’ or some other empty argument.
The replies do point out that there are many civilians hanging out here, ready to cop bash. Sorry, to the ‘law abiding citizen’ who feels vindicated that we view all citizens the same. You have missed the point. Tom, I have given breaks for many things to civilians, when such action was proper. Some of those I have helped in that way were cops. The Constitution and my badge are none the worse for wear, I assure you. Your attempt at making me and the rest of law enforcement feel guilty about the cops is weak at best. There is not the space to explain, and I would never convince you anyway.
And yes, Joe, we all are accountable for our actions. Again, no one is immune to arrest. Bend metal, and the bets for all — civilian and LEO are pretty much off.
Civilians are quick to paint the “write everyone” cops as arrogant, unfeeling , badge heavy types. Yet, stop them and they often ask for a break. They usually are grateful for one if you let them go with a warning.
Yet, when cops give the same consideration to other cops its somehow evil and should not be tolerated.
And RAY, I don’t know how my views are “liberal” or that I’m cozying up to my bosses, or say that I’m too lazy to arrest someone. Your post leads me to believe you are probably a civilian. Your your ending remarks about me coming out of my small town to south LA is just the sort of thing civilians say. The big city cops are the real police? Nope. We all (the ones on this who actually have a real commission)know that big cities and small cities alike are cops. I’ve been all over, worked with small and very large agencies. There is a mutual respect, that we are all in a difficult, often dangerous job. Given your grammar, spelling and inability to take the CAPS LOCK off, your comments bear little credibility. I’m not perfect in all those areas, but you should ask mom to show you where that button is located.
Thank you all for your input. I accept the $.02 Tom put in. (It will be sent to the NLEOMF.) Thanks for taking mine.
Be safe, my brothers and sisters.
DUI is a Misdemeanor and a discretional arrest, PERIOD, minus extenuating circumstances, eg: TA’s, shooting and the such. I personally think Dees is a self absorbed ego maniac who wants to set his personal moral standards. It is arrogant for a any man to opine a persons alcohol use from (1) traffic stop and formulate a “Alcoholic” judgment one way or another.
P.O’s. make decisions every day about many of their daily encounters. Do you give everyone a ticket. “No”. Do you arrest every illegal alien without a driver’s license, “No”, but you should. ILLEGAL ALIENS KILL MORE PEOPLE than any “drunk cop”.
Did Ted Kennedy go to jail for intentionally killing Mary Jo Kopechne at Chappaquiddick. No. He should be in jail for murder. Bill Clinton should be in jail for murder and should have been actually removed from office.
I am with the guy, who gives breaks to fellow officers. I have always done it and I will always do it. Personally, anyone who disagrees with this is an idiot.
“I am with the guy, who gives breaks to fellow officers. I have always done it and I will always do it. Personally, anyone who disagrees with this is an idiot.” Frank
EXACTLY…
It’s saddening to see that there are cops out there today that say they will lock a cop up for DUI. Can those same cops say they’ve never given a break to a civilian for DUI? Don’t let them drive if they’re drunk, but dont lock them up either. I dont know what academy teaches cops to lock up other cops, thank god I didn’t have to go through that one. In my academy (east coast) for all those east coast west coast wackers out there, they taught us to give the cop a ride home. I’ve experienced a LODD to a DUI offender, and my attitude the same. You take care of each other, that’s all you have. Not to mention what happens when you’re on the city lines and the next city over comes to back you up and it’s the same guy you locked up for DUI a while back? That makes for some uncomfortable times. Stay safe.
I thought that all police officers were loyal to their jobs. If I become one when i am older i am not going to do what they do at all because i know it is wrong…..
If we as law enforcement officers want credit for calling our line of work a “profession”, then act professional. You cannot expect citizens to respect you, and then drive around under the influence of alcohol. The only thing worse than driving around under the influence is allowing it to happen as an on-duty officer who happens to be so unlucky to be on the traffic stop / traffic crash involving an off-duty officer who is OVI. Personally, I do not want to work with officers who have drinking problems…my two cents…use common sense, people…it may be a “misdemeanor”, but it’s a dangerous one…be safe!
No one wants to work with a guy who has a drinking problem. No one wants to even have to deal with a fellow officer who is drunk and/or wrecks. We indeed should be more responsible, but we also remain human. But, thats not even the discussion here. The “never give a DUI cop a break” attitude is what some are sadly defending.
None of the “lock up a LEO” crowd have answered the question: “Have (or would you) ever give a break to a civilian?” If the answer is “yes” then it isn’t fair not to consider that option for our fellow officers. If the answer is “no” then the public you are trying so hard to impress with your flawed brand of professionalism will brand you drunk with authority, uncaring and unacceptable. You’ve heard civilians and their remarks about certain cops “writing his own mother”? Well,in this case you really are writing your own family member. If you do not see that, you need to seek other employment opportunities.
I’m looking for an up side to the community in being a robot. There is none.
Get the drunk off the road? Yes! I drive those roads, and so do my family members. We all agree on that.
Citing or arresting someone in an accident? Sure.
But when you have caught the copper before he harmed someone, and you feel good about denying him the options you might give others, and in your zeal to look ‘professional’ you refuse to consider other options so you can destroy his career…?
Professionalism, huh? No, sorry. Its pitiful. Its undermining the profession.
I think that guys that drive on the job let alone off the job should be terminated imeediately.
I JUST RETIRED AFTER 27 YEARS OF SERVICE ,I NEVER,GAVE A BROTHER OR SISTER OFFICER A TICKET .IF THEY HAD BEEN DRINKING OR WERE FLAT OUT DUI,I WOULD GET THEM TO THERE DESTINATION GET A COURTESY TOW FOR THERE VEHICLE AND IF THEY WERE FROM OUT OF STATE ID EVEN ARRAINGE FOR A COMPLIMENTARY NITES STAY AT A LOCAL MOTEL.TAKE CARE OF YOURE OWN OUT THERE, REMEMBER NO ONE ELSE IS GONNA HELP YA WHEN YA NEED IT,,,,,,TRUST ME ,,,,WE ARE A VERY THIN BLUE LINE,,,,,,,A WUZFUZ FROM MASSACHUSETTS….
Mr. krupak,
Ray already told you off; so I will just add:
This will distraught you terribly but somebody has to tell you.
YOU are a civilian! We’re ALL civilians - unless you’re in the military - which you’re NOT.